Hi could anyone help me to ID a segull i picked up at a boot sale last weekend its got FVP5608 stamped on it and someone told me it is a little 40 but still not sure.
As i like working on engines and sail weekends i would like to restore her.
Help please
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
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40TPI
- Posts: 451
- Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:08 pm
- Location: North Buckinghamshire, 110 miles south of Yorkshire, England.
Hi,
If you're new to the Help board on this site, here is the link to the SOS Frequently Asked Questions section:
http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/faq.htm
John, our host, has compiled this and fine tuned it over the years, and it answers a lot of the common questions that crop up. A glance at the rest of the site is well worth while, and the section 'ID your Seagull' will be of interest to the new owner:
http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/i_ ... eagull.htm
Enjoy your motor!
Peter
If you're new to the Help board on this site, here is the link to the SOS Frequently Asked Questions section:
http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/faq.htm
John, our host, has compiled this and fine tuned it over the years, and it answers a lot of the common questions that crop up. A glance at the rest of the site is well worth while, and the section 'ID your Seagull' will be of interest to the new owner:
http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/i_ ... eagull.htm
Enjoy your motor!
Peter
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Charles UK
You have a 70% chance of wrecking the water pump housing trying to remove the drive shaft tube.
The drive shaft tube is threaded into the water pump housing by a very fine thread which will hold on to it almost as good as welding.
The other Charles has tried to separate going on for 6 of these with about a 50% success rate, I'm sure he will tell you not to bother unless your need is pressing.
If it isn't very broke don't fix it!
The drive shaft tube is threaded into the water pump housing by a very fine thread which will hold on to it almost as good as welding.
The other Charles has tried to separate going on for 6 of these with about a 50% success rate, I'm sure he will tell you not to bother unless your need is pressing.
If it isn't very broke don't fix it!
It's actually not a 'Little Model Forty', it's a 'Super Forty Plus'. Slightly bigger gearbox than the little version, and many had the canted oval tank that was mounted on the rather strange cylinder head with its curved mounting lugs.
These models were popular, but fell by the wayside a bit where maintenance was concerned. Later variations led to the ubiquitous forty series which continued up until 1996.
The FV and FVP are my favourites. They pump water exceptionally well, they're interesting 'cos they're different, and they're scarce in running order.
The water pump housing does indeed become 'welded' to the drive shaft tube. Charles is quite correct when he says there's a 70% chance of wrecking the housing. It's only by applying a heft turning moment to that rather fragile casting that you stand any chance of removing the tube. The threads are very fine indeed, and sixty years' worth of corrosion and salt have inevitably siezed the vast majority absolutely solid. I don'y know what chemical/metallurgical processes are involved, but they certainly bond the two metals most convincingly.
If you do manage - with lots of heat ( That means far more than you would think safe) you'll end up with the two components separated, but with lumps of alloy adhereing to the threaded tube, and a very ragged thread in the casting. Whilst the tube can be cleaned up with a vicious wire brush ( only a lathe will recut the thred - I think it's 22 TPI ) you'll end up with a poor joint upon reassembly. It's a shame because the chrome goes bad on all of them, and a restoration cries out for the reinstatement of the shiny bits.
There are numerous other things to watch out for, too.
The 'through the water jacket' studs have been mentioned elsewhere; the galvanic corrosion produced by this layout is prodigious, and you may have the same 'welding' problem if you attempt to get them out of the crankcase.
The steel gaskets are unobtainable, as are the clenchbolt fittings that secure the leg and the bracket. So don't break them!
Good luck.
These models were popular, but fell by the wayside a bit where maintenance was concerned. Later variations led to the ubiquitous forty series which continued up until 1996.
The FV and FVP are my favourites. They pump water exceptionally well, they're interesting 'cos they're different, and they're scarce in running order.
The water pump housing does indeed become 'welded' to the drive shaft tube. Charles is quite correct when he says there's a 70% chance of wrecking the housing. It's only by applying a heft turning moment to that rather fragile casting that you stand any chance of removing the tube. The threads are very fine indeed, and sixty years' worth of corrosion and salt have inevitably siezed the vast majority absolutely solid. I don'y know what chemical/metallurgical processes are involved, but they certainly bond the two metals most convincingly.
If you do manage - with lots of heat ( That means far more than you would think safe) you'll end up with the two components separated, but with lumps of alloy adhereing to the threaded tube, and a very ragged thread in the casting. Whilst the tube can be cleaned up with a vicious wire brush ( only a lathe will recut the thred - I think it's 22 TPI ) you'll end up with a poor joint upon reassembly. It's a shame because the chrome goes bad on all of them, and a restoration cries out for the reinstatement of the shiny bits.
There are numerous other things to watch out for, too.
The 'through the water jacket' studs have been mentioned elsewhere; the galvanic corrosion produced by this layout is prodigious, and you may have the same 'welding' problem if you attempt to get them out of the crankcase.
The steel gaskets are unobtainable, as are the clenchbolt fittings that secure the leg and the bracket. So don't break them!
Good luck.
Help please
A big thank you to charlesp for all your help and advice. The seagull in question started after the second pull and after the fuel tap had stopped leaking (ie cork washer had expanded). Did not run it for long as it was on the work bench. As far as the drive tube and exhaust tube are concerned the drive tube is rusty and has lost the lower part of the chrome, so I will look into cleaning and re-chroming the drive tube if that is the best option. As far as the exhaust tube is concerned, the chrome plate is OK, but it has a nasty dent in the tube and I cannot see a way of knocking the dent out. Any suggestions on any of these matters would be gratefully received.
P.S. Anybody know how long the fixed tiller tube should be as mine seems very short?
I have pictures of this Seagull outboard, so if anyone would like to have a look, just ask!
P.S. Anybody know how long the fixed tiller tube should be as mine seems very short?
I have pictures of this Seagull outboard, so if anyone would like to have a look, just ask!
I'd love to see your photos.
What sort of tank has it?
Chrome exhaust shouldn't be too much of a problem, but the leg can't be plated while it's still attached to the water pump housing!
The short tiller arm is very short - in fact it's just long enough for the throttle, a small space either side, and the grip.
Is the transfer still there on the tank?
What sort of tank has it?
Chrome exhaust shouldn't be too much of a problem, but the leg can't be plated while it's still attached to the water pump housing!
The short tiller arm is very short - in fact it's just long enough for the throttle, a small space either side, and the grip.
Is the transfer still there on the tank?
pic
Has brass round tank. Seagull logo is still visible.
Could someone please tell me how to attach a photo!!
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Could someone please tell me how to attach a photo!!
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CatiGull
- Posts: 267
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:35 am
- Location: Delmar on Hudson NY USA.........3000 nm west of THe Black Country
To attach a photo you need to store it on one of the public photo sites like www.photobucket.com
then paste the link to the photo into your post..pretty simple
then paste the link to the photo into your post..pretty simple
Stephen
Awenke Yacht Club
New Baltimore NY
S/V Catigale
Macgregor 26X
Island 17 Sloop
Awenke Yacht Club
New Baltimore NY
S/V Catigale
Macgregor 26X
Island 17 Sloop
Sorry I have all ready mucked about with your pics on the "general topics" forum but for a very comprehensive guide to posting pictures see HERE It's written for the ybw forums but it all holds good for this one as well.Could someone please tell me how to attach a photo!!
You can resize pics as you upload them to Photobucket, but that takes ages. Microsoft Office Picture Manager will do it, or if you have photoediting program you can use that.