Originally posterd in the wrong forum topic area.... Just restoring an old Pilot - my Seagull Forty F/W needs competion - and I should be grateful for advice on the bevel drive lubrication. The (seized) bevel appeared to be full of grease when dismantled, and is this the best lubricant? If so, does anyone know what type of grease works best? Or should heavyweight oil be used instead? Grateful for any advice .....
.....and also on the type of cylinder head gasket material to use (and where to obtain in the UK - it appears to be a sort of metal reinforced paper).
Kind regards,
Peter
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Peter Newton
Anzani Pilot - advice needed....
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
Anzani Pilot - advice needed....
Peter Newton
I don't know whether the Anzanis originally had gear oil or grease, many folks in the antique motor hobby over here seem to have good results with using Lubriplate 105. It appears to be the standard replacement for antique outboards that used grease in the lower units. Although recently some have been using "corn head[ grease or oil ?] especially in areas where lots of maize is grown. It is used in the special attachment that combine harvesters use when harvesting maize or corn as we call it over here.
Some are using Lubriplate 105 in gearcases designed for 90 wt gear oil especially where the seals or case may have some leaks. It appears that there are enough people using it over a long enough period that it does the job without serious harm. Not sure if it would be available where you are. It is white in colour , almost turns to oil from the heat of handling it. It is mainly used to lubricate engine parts when assembling motors. Comes in a white tube with blue lettering. We find at auto parts stores.
Hope this may be of some help.
Some are using Lubriplate 105 in gearcases designed for 90 wt gear oil especially where the seals or case may have some leaks. It appears that there are enough people using it over a long enough period that it does the job without serious harm. Not sure if it would be available where you are. It is white in colour , almost turns to oil from the heat of handling it. It is mainly used to lubricate engine parts when assembling motors. Comes in a white tube with blue lettering. We find at auto parts stores.
Hope this may be of some help.
Many thanks for the relpies - most helpful. I will try the Lubriplate route, but access to this in the UK might be limited. I do think the bevel gearcase design lends itself to oil lubrication - with a new seal on a reground journal (and a new bearing to match) this ahould provide an effective seal, but this will be the more expensive route and might be the second option to the Lubriplate....
Kind regards.
Kind regards.
Peter Newton
The Lubriplate option seems to be a good solution, though I don't have any experience of it.
The Pilots did originally use a waterproof grease, but any gearcases I have opened up show that the gears just cut a groove in the grease!
Because my motors only got (have sold most of the Pilots now, but I do have the Minors, which use the same gearbox) very infrequent use, I put 140 weight oil in via a Draper oil gun. I did this because the pinion has a needle roller bearing behind it, and I felt oil would be far better than grease to lubricate this bearing, although from the sound of it, Lubriplate could prove to be an effective solution.
Cylinder head gasket material - I think that being water cooled, the Pilots don't run at particularly high temperatures, so choice of gasket shouldn't be too critical - some of the older type motor factors might be able to come up with a suitable material. There are no regular sources for Anzani parts such as we have the luxury of with Seagulls. Rick.
The Pilots did originally use a waterproof grease, but any gearcases I have opened up show that the gears just cut a groove in the grease!
Because my motors only got (have sold most of the Pilots now, but I do have the Minors, which use the same gearbox) very infrequent use, I put 140 weight oil in via a Draper oil gun. I did this because the pinion has a needle roller bearing behind it, and I felt oil would be far better than grease to lubricate this bearing, although from the sound of it, Lubriplate could prove to be an effective solution.
Cylinder head gasket material - I think that being water cooled, the Pilots don't run at particularly high temperatures, so choice of gasket shouldn't be too critical - some of the older type motor factors might be able to come up with a suitable material. There are no regular sources for Anzani parts such as we have the luxury of with Seagulls. Rick.
Anzani Pilot - advice needed....
Once again, many thanks - John told me that the Forum was bound to produce good results! Might anyone have a drawing of the bevel gearbox including the bottom of the engine driveshaft (the bearing of which appears to be seized in my housing - thoughts on removal?)? Something scanned that could be emailed would be good, or happy to pay postage on a photocopy...
Peter Newton
Peter - I'm struggling to remember right now, but the part you are having difficulty in removing is a brass sleeve, inside which is the needle bearing I mentioned.
Remover the cotter pin - take care because it is aluminium - use a lot of heat on the collar around the area of the cotter - and be gentle.
Heat the aluminium to a point where you need a pair of gardening gloves to hold the part, and then need to get the gloves off a bit sharpish as the heat travels through and you start to dance around the workshop!! Allow the ally a little while to expand.
Probably the best thing to do then is to grip the driveshaft in a vice and try and drive off the gear casing with a rubber mallet or similar.
Once you get it moving, the driveshaft (with the pinion on the end) and the brass sleeve will come out as an assembly. There was also a rubber 'boot' above the brass sleeve to act as a seal, which may be in a bit of a state or totally gone by now.
If you need a new bearing I have one somewhere, and I did have some new ally cotters made, which I should be able to find.
If you want to pm me your address I'll send you a photocopy of a Pilot handbook, which has a diagram of the whole motor as the centrefold - I did have some blowups of the diagram, but haven't seen these for a while!
Rick.
Remover the cotter pin - take care because it is aluminium - use a lot of heat on the collar around the area of the cotter - and be gentle.
Heat the aluminium to a point where you need a pair of gardening gloves to hold the part, and then need to get the gloves off a bit sharpish as the heat travels through and you start to dance around the workshop!! Allow the ally a little while to expand.
Probably the best thing to do then is to grip the driveshaft in a vice and try and drive off the gear casing with a rubber mallet or similar.
Once you get it moving, the driveshaft (with the pinion on the end) and the brass sleeve will come out as an assembly. There was also a rubber 'boot' above the brass sleeve to act as a seal, which may be in a bit of a state or totally gone by now.
If you need a new bearing I have one somewhere, and I did have some new ally cotters made, which I should be able to find.
If you want to pm me your address I'll send you a photocopy of a Pilot handbook, which has a diagram of the whole motor as the centrefold - I did have some blowups of the diagram, but haven't seen these for a while!
Rick.
Anzani Pilot - advice needed....
Once again, many, many thanks. Great advice. As for the cotter pin, this has been removed. I assume that the brass sleeve is extracted on the drive shaft - the shaft (with integral bevel gear?) and the bearing sleeve come out as a unit? I will explore this later as I am in France right now and the Pilot is in London. Very grateful for the link to the documentation and I will be in touch with contact details should a photocopy help.
Peter Newton