Saving Old Seagulls

Hugz wrote:Part of the fun of gulls is waiting in a lair for a part to appear and the hunt to procure it. Let's not deny Roy this pleasure, besides I'm waiting to see how it runs with a villiers carb.

You may well be in luck on the Villiers carb fix?

As my parts bin shows me that the size of gearbox I would expect to fit to the 102 motor has no pinion in it, I am not sure the shafts and gears I have are corrrect either, the prop I have will be on the small size, its a five blade but off a smaller motor?

What I do have is a gear box complete off the smaller motors, it takes the clutch activator, if I use the 102 power head and the smaller Villiers carb I can expect a lower BHP output which may suit the gearbox and prop that I have?

I have to work with what I have !

Bitsas r good

I think that motor leaning against the pink wall was the one who's time I equaled around Bermuda to share the record with.

That cardboard box you can just see contained his special fuel!

fleetingcontact wrote:Bitsas r good

102 bitsa 2.jpg



wtf2.jpg

Thanks, I do not have the 102 round fuel tank so the later rectangular one will have to be used, I will need to make up the tank mounts to fit?

Fitting the Seagull Villiers carb to the 102 motor is as simple as a small length of 25mm diameter plastic hose, rubber will work as well.

I next need to extend the fuel line from the tank to the Villiers carb.

Plastic hose with 25mm internal diameter fits both the 102 inlet spigot and the Seagull Villiers carburetor

A side view, this was a very easy fix, will the motor run as it should with the Villiers carb fitted is the question.


The hose to carb is a tighter fit than the hose to the inlet on the block, I will fit a second clamp on and to the carb side if the motor runs ok.

That's given me an idea. In the past we have talked about running a gull on alcohol. It is hard to get alcohol and oil to mix but with Roy's arrangement a drip system (oil) could be introduced through the hose with a secondary oil tank.

Hugz wrote:That's given me an idea. In the past we have talked about running a gull on alcohol. It is hard to get alcohol and oil to mix but with Roy's arrangement a drip system (oil) could be introduced through the hose with a secondary oil tank.

Alcohol, We normally drink that stuff here?

The second clamp is now on the plastic pipe as, I realised that as soon as the motor warms up the plastic hose will soften and leak air, or allow the carb to fall off?

The motor is ready to fuel up and run, excepting the throttle connection, that will not happen as with the Villiers carb being on the wrong side of the motor on a 102 series, the throttle cables that I have are too short.

Being a quiet Sunday I will not start the motor today, Monday will be good though, I can control the throttle slide with a cable and my left hand?

All I need to proove is that the motor will fire and run on a Seagull Villiers carb, the fuel to 2 stroke oil mix will be 10:1 .

Monday, the tank was flushed out twice before I put clean 2 stroke oil and petrol in it, there is an in line filter at the carb banjo bolt, I hope its enough?

The motor fired on the second pull, by the third pull I had a runner and it was perfect with the hand throttle and the Seagull Villers carb, the exhaust note sounded crisp and clean, prooven by the lack of exhaust smoke worth bothering about !

When the motor was stopped there was some smoke exiting the water transfer pipe exit, as the copper feed pipe to the water pump is not connected that will be normal?

The smoke is just visible in the picture.

There is no water pump or drive shaft as yet.

I have come as far as I need with this motor for now, as from being seized near solid I have stripped and freed off the piston, then run it with the Seagull Villiers carb to do a bench test.


Job done.

The way that the Villiers lines up with the inlet port leaves a very small step for the fuel air mix to flow past, those who were keen enough could easily remove that step to form a taper?

Would there be a use for another size of needle to increase the fuel flow?

In this instance i think getting the right amount of air into the cylinder would be of more use rather than trying to get more fuel.

Needles in carbs for the most part can be raised a little to allow more fuel to flow through the jet. A 46n 2jet carb doesn't have a needle before anyone comments. Completely different to a villiers. You could try removing the top cover of the villiers carb to get at the throttle slide where you'll see a small brass screw in the top of the slide. Generally this screw is set flush with the top of the slide. By unscrewing this small screw OUTWARDS a turn or two you might be able to richen up the mixture a tad, but seeing as the carb is not really the correct one for this application you might stumble across another problem with the different internal dimensions of the carb itself versus the inlet stub of the 102's cylinder and your garden hose set-up. A wet test on a boat should prove this i think. Not teaching you to suck eggs here, but air coming into the carb goes through all that voodoo stuff that seems scary to some folks and then hits a step. Literally like running into a brick wall of sorts (this is your different internal dimensions between villiers carb and 102 inlet stub) This is not a smooth passage for the air to travel through. Having said that neither is the inlet on the 102 as there's a deflector wedgie thingy near to the bottom where it deflects the air at an angle into the cylinder. All goofy but it must do something or BS wouldn't have designed it that way. True, you could grind away some material in the 102's inlet passage to create a smoother transition, maybe even for the better but personally i think you should hold out for a 46n 2jet rather than trying to modify the 102's cylinder in such a way that once you've altered it there's no going back.

Have you heard of Bernoulli's theorem before? Worth understanding the basics before you go much further. This is the sort of "black magic" that goes on inside a carb.
Better explained here.
https://www.britannica.com/science/Bernoullis-theorem

blokewithaboat wrote:In this instance i think getting the right amount of air into the cylinder would be of more use rather than trying to get more fuel.

Needles in carbs for the most part can be raised a little to allow more fuel to flow through the jet. A 46n 2jet carb doesn't have a needle before anyone comments. Completely different to a villiers. You could try removing the top cover of the villiers carb to get at the throttle slide where you'll see a small brass screw in the top of the slide. Generally this screw is set flush with the top of the slide. By unscrewing this small screw OUTWARDS a turn or two you might be able to richen up the mixture a tad, but seeing as the carb is not really the correct one for this application you might stumble across another problem with the different internal dimensions of the carb itself versus the inlet stub of the 102's cylinder and your garden hose set-up. A wet test on a boat should prove this i think. Not teaching you to suck eggs here, but air coming into the carb goes through all that voodoo stuff that seems scary to some folks and then hits a step. Literally like running into a brick wall of sorts (this is your different internal dimensions between villiers carb and 102 inlet stub) This is not a smooth passage for the air to travel through. Having said that neither is the inlet on the 102 as there's a deflector wedgie thingy near to the bottom where it deflects the air at an angle into the cylinder. All goofy but it must do something or BS wouldn't have designed it that way. True, you could grind away some material in the 102's inlet passage to create a smoother transition, maybe even for the better but personally i think you should hold out for a 46n 2jet rather than trying to modify the 102's cylinder in such a way that once you've altered it there's no going back.

Have you heard of Bernoulli's theorem before? Worth understanding the basics before you go much further. This is the sort of "black magic" that goes on inside a carb.
Better explained here.
https://www.britannica.com/science/Bernoullis-theorem

Thanks on your comments which I understand.

I have reached the stage where I needed to be, which was to prove to myself that the seized 102 engine that I had taken down to a bare crankcase could once again be a runner.

If and when the Amal 2 yest comes along I will be happy to keep things as they are .

I cannot use the motor as there is no drive shaft, so also no water impellor, meaning no cooling, the lack of a prop would be an issue too!