Hi all. Just bought a 170 in bits. I was thinking that a 170 in bits meant a trashed power head particularly when the vendor would only state it was 'nearly' all there! however, it did have many of the bits to convert my older model 90 to longshaft so hence my purchase. When I got home the first quick look shows that actually the powerhead looks OK so I am feeling a little loathed to break it up.
Am well aware of the 170's achilles heel and as I rely entirely on outboard power I can't really afford to take a motor of questionable reliability to sea and I'm not sure I have room to store the 90 on board too. I seem to recall various people have had made new end caps etc for the motor and I seem to recall ( was it Charles L? ) asking if there was enough interest to get a batch made? ( a search hasn't found that post tho ) so my question is is there anywhere I can get a nicely beefed up rod / end cap / shells etc? and are there any other parts impossible to get now? If I can't beef it up then its back to the plan of breaking it I guess.
170
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
Hi Waggles
The description of the beefed up con rod end cap is on the ID pages for the 170. - http://saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/125_170_series.htm
Bit bizarre reading your thread - I'm in exactly the same situation. Just bought a 170 and picked it up today. It is in stunning condition and came with red Seagull remote tank and remotes for the gears and throttle. Clearly from previous threads, I've also got a 90 that I use as a first choice - and would have difficulty in storing the 90 on the boat as a spare so carry a WSPCL or FP neither of which has ever let me down when the 90 has. Hopefully that problem is now resolved.
I'm guessing you're "an*****rner" - I'm "Fe*****reig" on the bay. I emailed you re. the tiller - mine is missing because it was set up for remotes. If yours is complete, you got a damn good deal for £26!! Mine was £149 but I am very happy with what I got. The whole thing is spotless although I think the gearbox may have had a lick of paint.
I'm on the look out for a tiller if you decide to go for the upgrading of your 90 option.
Update the thread with what you decide to do - I'm very interested.
The description of the beefed up con rod end cap is on the ID pages for the 170. - http://saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/125_170_series.htm
Bit bizarre reading your thread - I'm in exactly the same situation. Just bought a 170 and picked it up today. It is in stunning condition and came with red Seagull remote tank and remotes for the gears and throttle. Clearly from previous threads, I've also got a 90 that I use as a first choice - and would have difficulty in storing the 90 on the boat as a spare so carry a WSPCL or FP neither of which has ever let me down when the 90 has. Hopefully that problem is now resolved.
I'm guessing you're "an*****rner" - I'm "Fe*****reig" on the bay. I emailed you re. the tiller - mine is missing because it was set up for remotes. If yours is complete, you got a damn good deal for £26!! Mine was £149 but I am very happy with what I got. The whole thing is spotless although I think the gearbox may have had a lick of paint.
I'm on the look out for a tiller if you decide to go for the upgrading of your 90 option.
Update the thread with what you decide to do - I'm very interested.
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Charles uk
- Posts: 4972
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
- Location: Maidenhead Berks UK
Seagull 170 conrod big end caps have to be made on a "one off" basis as the end cap retaining bolts seem to be in a slightly different centers on each rod.
This removes the quantity discount advantage of having a batch made, any competetant machine shop with a CNC mill should be able to make you one from phosphor bronze, that should last several years, but at a price that might frighten you.
The 170 was the only loop charged motor that Seagull ever made but wasn't the most powerful, the Kingfisher produced 0.1 HP more than the 170 according to British Seagull's own dyno test results.
Where the 7.5 HP figure came from I have no idea, I have yet to see any other manufacturer claiming to get 7.5 HP from 102cc's on a mass produced outboard to date.
170's usually get a bit noisey on the big end before they expire, so stop using it at that time, not way before.
All Seagulls are prone to stopping for no apparent reason, that's part of their attraction, so use it or bin it, an outboard that doesn't get run, is an ornament.
I love 170's I use mine more than any other Seagulls I own.
This removes the quantity discount advantage of having a batch made, any competetant machine shop with a CNC mill should be able to make you one from phosphor bronze, that should last several years, but at a price that might frighten you.
The 170 was the only loop charged motor that Seagull ever made but wasn't the most powerful, the Kingfisher produced 0.1 HP more than the 170 according to British Seagull's own dyno test results.
Where the 7.5 HP figure came from I have no idea, I have yet to see any other manufacturer claiming to get 7.5 HP from 102cc's on a mass produced outboard to date.
170's usually get a bit noisey on the big end before they expire, so stop using it at that time, not way before.
All Seagulls are prone to stopping for no apparent reason, that's part of their attraction, so use it or bin it, an outboard that doesn't get run, is an ornament.
I love 170's I use mine more than any other Seagulls I own.
Um, yes, well I guess this one could be already 'noisy' I don't really know but it would make sense otherwise why would it be in bits? It was only a passing whim as I was surprised to see how relatively complete it was but I am too nervous to take a motor to sea that might throw a major mechanical wobbly. I accept motors stopping for no reason, they all do it ( even my new Honda did ) but I don't like the idea of one stopping for a terminal reason. Getting a 'few years' out of an expensive one off part is not really my scene either I will leave that to the racing fraternity I think so it looks like I will be breaking it as originally planned.
I shall be keeping all the lower leg and drive parts obviously and I would think the ignition / flywheel / recoil should fit on a 90 so will retain those too. Steven has reserved the tiller, so that really only leaves the powerhead itself, carb, tray and cover. I will give those a check over and pop them on the 'for sale' forum, but if anyone else has any particular needs let me know. They will go on the bay if there is no response after a couple of weeks or so.
Steven, will PM you when I get the tiller off.
Will remain a fully paid up 'plodder' and leave these here new fangled fancy speed machines to others
I shall be keeping all the lower leg and drive parts obviously and I would think the ignition / flywheel / recoil should fit on a 90 so will retain those too. Steven has reserved the tiller, so that really only leaves the powerhead itself, carb, tray and cover. I will give those a check over and pop them on the 'for sale' forum, but if anyone else has any particular needs let me know. They will go on the bay if there is no response after a couple of weeks or so.
Steven, will PM you when I get the tiller off.
Will remain a fully paid up 'plodder' and leave these here new fangled fancy speed machines to others
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rosbullterier
- Posts: 710
- Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:23 am
- Location: Cornwall UK
I spent a shedload having a bronze end cap made because I was caught up in the paranoia that they all fail. The previous owner had sterling service from the engine and it was internally pristine (and far better produced than Centuries) But I still had a cap made.
Think about it. The lightweight alloy cap is only needed on the return stroke; the conrod side (which is fitted with shell bearing) takes the thrust stroke.
It appears the only time failure strikes is when the motor is overevved in neutral - which this engine does easily - and there is not sufficient oil to lubricate the bearing. Being alloy, the cap doesn't get a second chance because the aluminium picks up.
Don't over rev and it should work very satisfactorily.
Think about it. The lightweight alloy cap is only needed on the return stroke; the conrod side (which is fitted with shell bearing) takes the thrust stroke.
It appears the only time failure strikes is when the motor is overevved in neutral - which this engine does easily - and there is not sufficient oil to lubricate the bearing. Being alloy, the cap doesn't get a second chance because the aluminium picks up.
Don't over rev and it should work very satisfactorily.
A good point re the end cap not taking the thrust as such but in my old traditional eyes not fitting a shell to the cap is still a risky strategy.
I could probably guarantee that I wouldn't over rev it in neutral but unfortunately we get very short steep seas in this area when wind is over tide ( and are also plagued by the nouveau riche blasting around in their gin palaces when the water is smooth ) so there is a problem if the prop comes out of the water at a high power setting.
Please understand I am definitely not trying to add to the paranoia or to convince anyone to throw away their 170, I have seen one running and there is no doubt in my mind at all it is a cracking little motor, its just not for me in this case.
I could probably guarantee that I wouldn't over rev it in neutral but unfortunately we get very short steep seas in this area when wind is over tide ( and are also plagued by the nouveau riche blasting around in their gin palaces when the water is smooth ) so there is a problem if the prop comes out of the water at a high power setting.
Please understand I am definitely not trying to add to the paranoia or to convince anyone to throw away their 170, I have seen one running and there is no doubt in my mind at all it is a cracking little motor, its just not for me in this case.