Early British Seagull tank

[JERSEYMAN]

Hi all, I had to post this as it’s the only Marston type central filler tank with a British Seagull decal I’ve seen, all the central filler tank I’ve come across either have no decal or a Marston one. Being honest, I’ve fitted Marston decals to tanks that should have probably had a British Seagull one, but thinking about it, after all well over half the ON/OP’s out there were made under British Seagull. The thing is, are they still a Marston? We all still call Land Rovers and Bentleys by their name, we don’t call them Tata’s and VW’s.

From now on I think I’ll be using the correct decal for the year, I won’t mind a British Seagull decal on my Marston....

[Oyster 49]

It would be great to know more about the transition from John Marston Ltd to the new British Seagull company. For example when did the actual transition take place, when did production move etc?

[Ferrier120]

Found this magazine advert which I hope might be of interest.

[JERSEYMAN]

That’s a really interesting advert, thank you

[Oyster 49]

What do we know about the changeover of production to engines being made in Poole?

[JERSEYMAN]

I would love to find out too...

[Methersgate]

John Marston died in 1918 at the age of 82. If Wikipedia have it right, his business was bought by Nobel Industries Ltd. In 1926 Nobel merged with Brunner Mond and with British Alkalis and British Dyestuffs Ltd to form ICI, with the Nobel bits as ICI’s Nobel Division. In 1937 - the year of the advertisement above - the Sunbeam motorcycle business was sold to the Associated Motorcycle Company (AMC) and I wonder if ICI were having a clear out of what would now be called “non-core” businesses?

I think that may have given the young British Seagull company a chance to buy its tooling at modest cost and shift that to its new works in Poole?

[charlesp]

A very modest cost, it might surprise you. The original agreement was signed in late December 1937 between the Bristol Motor Boat Company (now operated solely by Way-Hope and Pinniger) and Marstons. They were to take over the patents, drawings, stocks of motors and spares, goodwill etc, for the princely sum of £630. Tooling isn't mentioned

The pair had been working on improvements to the motors, and their first patent referred to the rubber bushing on an outboard propshaft.

The models being produced at this time were at first the OJ, quickly replaced by the ON and OP. Not many were being manufactured, it is estimated that a spacious factory wouldn't be needed, it being more a case of assembling the components. For a short while they rented premises in Wolverhampton.

By July 1938 they had become the British Seagull Company, and they were seeking premises, eventually moving to Poole, where Pinniger had family

Their fist short lived address was in Hamilton Road in Hamworthy - a few hundred yards from where I'm sitting right now. The exact number is unknown, there's no trace of the firm in that road now.

They were based in the town itself around 1939, near the old lifting bridge and in the early part of the war the company was pretty much in mothballs. It wasn't until 1942 that the powers that be wanted to know if they could put together a large order for the Army. Way-Hope was the one they contacted. He was working for Vosper's by them, and he simply said "Yes", and arranged for Pinniger to come back from the Bristol Aeroplane Company where he was a draughtsman. Around this time in the UK virtually every small fabrication or machine ship was working on Ministry contracts making bits for bombers or Sten Guns and I strongly suspect that the Seagulls were no exception, with work farmed out to wherever there was capacity. I do know that, for example, the Central Garage in Verwood was charged with drilling the holes in bracket castings and cutting brass exhausts from long tubes. I have met one very elderly gentleman who worked there at the time

It was the contract for what we know as the SD series that made the company, of course. The other Charles and myself calculated that total production from 1931 to 1939 was relatively small, but we know that around ten thousand SD's were supplied to the Ministry, ending in 1946. At pre-war prices that added up to approximately the cost of a Hunt Class destroyer without its armament.

As an aside, Way Hope used "B.E.M" after his name on their letterhead after the war. He was, I found, awarded the British Empire Medal for a rescue during the 1941 Blitz where he was on duty with Vospers' Air Raid Precautions. The position of the factory near the bridge is confirmed by the damage caused to his motor car when he carelessly left in near the bridge which opened with another car on the lifting bit, which ran down the slope into Pinniger's Rover.

[Oyster 49]

Great stuff Charles all those little stories make the whole history fascinating

[Methersgate]

Wonderful! Thank you!

[Collector Inspector]

A very modest cost, it might surprise you. The original agreement was signed in late December 1937 between the Bristol Motor Boat Company (now operated solely by Way-Hope and Pinniger) and Marstons. They were to take over the patents, drawings, stocks of motors and spares, goodwill etc, for the princely sum of £630. Tooling isn't mentioned

The pair had been working on improvements to the motors, and their first patent referred to the rubber bushing on an outboard propshaft.

The models being produced at this time were at first the OJ, quickly replaced by the ON and OP. Not many were being manufactured, it is estimated that a spacious factory wouldn't be needed, it being more a case of assembling the components. For a short while they rented premises in Wolverhampton.

By July 1938 they had become the British Seagull Company, and they were seeking premises, eventually moving to Poole, where Pinniger had family

Their fist short lived address was in Hamilton Road in Hamworthy - a few hundred yards from where I'm sitting right now. The exact number is unknown, there's no trace of the firm in that road now.

They were based in the town itself around 1939, near the old lifting bridge and in the early part of the war the company was pretty much in mothballs. It wasn't until 1942 that the powers that be wanted to know if they could put together a large order for the Army. Way-Hope was the one they contacted. He was working for Vosper's by them, and he simply said "Yes", and arranged for Pinniger to come back from the Bristol Aeroplane Company where he was a draughtsman. Around this time in the UK virtually every small fabrication or machine ship was working on Ministry contracts making bits for bombers or Sten Guns and I strongly suspect that the Seagulls were no exception, with work farmed out to wherever there was capacity. I do know that, for example, the Central Garage in Verwood was charged with drilling the holes in bracket castings and cutting brass exhausts from long tubes. I have met one very elderly gentleman who worked there at the time

It was the contract for what we know as the SD series that made the company, of course. The other Charles and myself calculated that total production from 1931 to 1939 was relatively small, but we know that around ten thousand SD's were supplied to the Ministry, ending in 1946. At pre-war prices that added up to approximately the cost of a Hunt Class destroyer without its armament.

As an aside, Way Hope used "B.E.M" after his name on their letterhead after the war. He was, I found, awarded the British Empire Medal for a rescue during the 1941 Blitz where he was on duty with Vospers' Air Raid Precautions. The position of the factory near the bridge is confirmed by the damage caused to his motor car when he carelessly left in near the bridge which opened with another car on the lifting bit, which ran down the slope into Pinniger's Rover.

Thank you Charles

I appreciate your life memories greatly.

BnC

[Sandro_Picchio]

Very interesting stories.

[JERSEYMAN]

Thank you Charles, as always, very informative reading.
Brilliant