SJM 521R7

[fleetingcontact]

The more I look at this the more it seems a bitsa. The engine code makes it 55-56...so the tank, fuel cap, throttle lever, ignition, all wrong - unless the SOS identifier is way off. But it has a 'bobbin' instead of a thrust block. Can this plausibly be an original part?

[Charles uk]

Is it possible that you've misread the serial number?

Could it be SJM 521B7 that would make it February 1967. right at the end of the production run?

If it is everything would be just about right.

[fleetingcontact]

To be fair, It is difficult to mis-read...

What I reckon since posting is that this is a bitsa made from a 70s featherweight but using the early cases (look at the contrast between the cases and the top of the driveshaft tube) - and an old transom clamp, perhaps originally belonging to the cases. Because everything is consistent with a 70s offering except the serial...which the SOS identifier doesn't like.

Anyhow what I want an opinion on really (already asked Jeremy!) is whether or not anybody thinks it is plausible that a cotton-reel thrust block would have appeared on a fifties SJM!

Thanks

[Charles uk]

If it's an aluminium cotton reel then it's possible mid 50's.

It's the 7 that's confusing.

What did Jeremy say?

[fleetingcontact]

That it is unlikely that a fifties SJM would have had a cotton reel thrust block. I was at first encouraged that this item had one, till I looked a bit closer.

The thing is, I am, just for fun, assembling a SJP that is as close to original (whatever that is) as possible (and very shiny, obviously). Jeremy has been very helpful in this. But unless an alloy thrust block comes my way, the choice is a plastic one or one of Jon's reproduction items. This is a no-brainer.

I was hoping to establish some credibility for its use, thats all.

[fleetingcontact]

It seems I mis-interpreted a comment made to me by Jeremy in an email. Here's an extract from a further statement:

"From my data on the Early Series Fortys, it would appear that the cotton reels were probably fitted to all of them, but I am not at all certain of that. I must concentrate on collecting that data. Interestingly my SJM35 has a thrust block, but as it was produced at the same time as the tail end LS production, just confuses me.

Out of interest the very first Early Series Fortys ie the Fs, they had a cast aluminium cotton reel."

[charlesp]

SJM23 doesn't have the cotton reels. I believe John Williams has SJM 1 - it would make sense to ask him (unless you already have, Jeremy!)

The "R" does suggest a return to British Seagull for a rebuild at some point during its career. I would be surprised if the chaps at the factory didn't swap the cotton reels out for the later component at that time. They had, I'm told, a fairly generous policy of "new for old" parts.

[fleetingcontact]

Thanks Charles, I also ran it by John@SOS - he didn't think it had a cotton reel either! I don't believe he looked at his SJM though. I think the obvious explanation is that this SJM on ebay was either wearing a earlier transom bracket or someone switched the thrust block for the earlier part.

Your comment about the serial number is a little intriguing though - are you saying (if you are right about the refurb stamp) it would have originally left the factory as SJM 521?

[charlesp]

Yes, that's right.

[Gannet]

I don't know when the plastic cotton reel was superseded by the thrust block and whether that was initially in plastic or aluminium.
They are obviously so easy to change, along with the transom bracket itself, so swapping bits around make life difficult.

However Charles L, you are wrong in suggesting that an aluminium cotton reel could be mid 1950s. These were just fitted to the earliest Fs (and possibly FVs) and almost certainly no later than 1950.

The evidence for this is my F210, has the aluminium cotton reel as does F351, both having the 'inside' style of transom bracket with the thumb screws close together. Additional I have a spare bracket of this style, also with the aluminium cotton reel. I have no record of any other aluminium cotton reel, but of course there will be others.

Charles P , could you comment in respect of your early F and FV, which were produced in 1949.
To link serial nos with dates, VF1325 was the last engine produced in 1949.


Martin,

SJM521 would have been produced concurrently with the LSs in 1955, so one would have expected it to have the current LS build of transom bracket and thrust reel/block (whatever that was).

Perhaps owners/keepes of LSs with serial nos of 30000 and upwards, could let me know what thrust arrangement they have.

Jeremy

[Charles uk]

Thanks Jeremy, I've only seen 1 or 2 aluminium cotton reels, & if I remember right 1 on an F,& I had a 55 FV with one & like everyone assumed it was right.

The hard facts are most welcome.

[charlesp]

Jeremy I will pop down to the workshop tomorrow and have a look. The darkness and the chill and the Rioja persuade me not to do it right now.

[Gannet]

Thanks Charles,
I am up early this morning (obviously not enough Rioja!), as I will be on my way very shortly to the coast for a boating session. FV5141 and FV3048 are in the boot of the car to be used on my dinghy.

I know that I do not have to convince you, that these FVs are the most useable old Seagulls. With the great advantage for those with dodgy backs that they are the lightest ones. They are also probably the quietest ones and the best starting ones. That is my unbiased (!) opinion.

I would be interested in what style of transom bracket you have on yr early F/FVs. Are the thumb screws close together.


Jeremy

[fleetingcontact]

Here's two transom clamps I have...

The one on the right is the later one (obviously) and I've had a go at cleaning it up a bit.

The one on the left was fitted to an FV. It is obviously smaller, but the finish seems odd to me - it is definitely made of bronze but appears to have some kind of plating...or is it just tarnished? I've never seen that before, they normally come to me in a interesting shade of green.

And the other question is...would it have been fitted to an SJP or is the later type more likely?

Thanks.

[Gannet]

Martin,

The transom bracket on the left would have probably, I believe been nickel plated. Most, if not all of these smaller 4" ones were plated.
The engine support lug, which it has been fitted to, was introduced at serial number 10000. So that would indicate it was fitted to FV (and possibly FVP and LS) until about serial number very approx. 16000, when the longer 5.4" version was being used. Whether in the period 10000 to 16000, the smaller 4" version was used for just FVs, I do not have the information to know.

Was this bracket originally part of the bits off FVP 10359?

Jeremy