Transom Security Bars on F, FV, FVP, LM and LS

[Gannet]

The other day, Charles L, asked me a question about the transom bracket security bars on the Early Series Forty Models. Well, this got me thinking and so I looked at my flock.
I now suspect, but do not really know for sure, that there are probably two main types with the F, FV and FVP models. (I haven’t got any evidence from the LSs).
The first type is an L proportioned, probably nickel plated brass bar of length about 2 1/2” by 3 ¼”, with one end flattened off. The other type is an unplated brass bar with both legs the same approx. length of 3 ¼”. I used to think these were just homemade security bars which owners made to replace a lost original. But as all 5 that I have are the same length of 3 1/4” for each leg, then that is clearly not the case. So the questions arise as to whether these brass ones of 3 ¼” were supplied with new engines and if so, when did this start. And also when did the nice nickel plated L proportioned ones cease to be supplied with new engines.
My early Fs and FVs up to FV3048 have these nickel plated L proportioned ones, with the exception of FV1867T, which had been rebuilt with later bits to convert it to a tilting tiller.
So, for the interim, I am going to assume that production got underway with nickel plated L proportioned bars and at some later date this ceased.
There are other bars which were possibly very much later, ie a longer bar of about 3 ¾ “ by 3 ¾” and possibly made in stainless steel was used at some point.
So, could owners of F, FV, FVP, LM and LS tell me what type of bar they have, so that we can attempt to determine the correct build standard.
Thank you.
Jeremy

[headdownarseup]

Hi Jeremy
I've just had a quick look at my 3 LS's and FV.They are as follows

LS18849 plain brass 3 3/4 non flattened end (non plated transom bracket) This entire motor was very incomplete when i first bought it though.
LS35744 plain brass 3 1/4 non flattened end (fully plated transom bracket) This motor i think is mostly original as far as i can tell.
LS36688 (still a work in progress with a non plated transom bracket has a long ish bolt fitted for the moment so don't read too much into this one just yet)

FV11716 2 1/2 X 3 1/4 fully plated with flattened end (fully plated transom bracket) Another motor i think which is unmolested.

Hope this helps
Jon

[Charles uk]

The reason for my question was that mine was an L type with flattened end was made from Monel ( mildly attracted to magnets ) & I wondered if the plated ones were Monel or plated brass.

[Gannet]

Thanks Jon.
Interesting to know that a relatively late FV has the L proportioned plated bar. Also yr two LSs have plain brass. We need a lot more data to draw conclusions - but its a start, so thanks.

Charles, Yes, l know that is what we discussed, Is stainless steel a bit complicated as far as magnetism is concerned? I know that grade 316 is austenitic and non magnetic, but are the martensitic range always fully magnetic? I am trying to remember if their magnetism varies with being worked. Anyway it is a bit by the way. But thanks for getting me interested in these security bars for the Early Series Forty engines.

Jeremy

[RickUK]

Martensitic stainless steels are always magnetic, and even some of the low number austenitics - 304/305 - have a relatively high degree of magnetic characteristics.

[Gannet]

Thanks Rick,

You obviously have professional technical knowledge in this area. Thanks for your input.

I know it is not a very sexy topic to know what type of security bar was fitted to the Early Series Forty Models, and when any changes occurred. But, it interests me - there is no accounting for what we each find sexy!

The photo shows what I believe are possibly the two main types - certainly of early production.
The first type was an L proportioned plated brass bar of 2 ½” by 3 1/4”, shown on the left in the photo.
The second type was an unplated brass bar of 3 ¼” by 3 ¼”, shown on the right in the photo.

So, could anybody with an F, FV,FVP, LM and LS, let me know what type has been fitted.
Thanks in anticipation.

Jeremy

[Keith.P]

All my motors have the plated bar with the pressed end, I'm never seen a plan brass one before.

[timberman2004]

Should it be helpful, I shall check mine out once i've shovelled the snow away from the 'Gull storage emporium

[Nudge]

once i've shovelled the snow away from the 'Gull storage emporium

What is Snow! 26c here nice and sunny.... time to get out the Gull!

[Hugz]

It was 36c at 9.30 this morning in sunny sydney. Just been for a bushwalk and came across a bikini model doing a photoshoot on an old bridge. I tried not to perv but failed miserably. For penance I'll drag out my original LS in a crate with factory seals and take a photo of bar.

[Hugz]

Penance!

Left click pic to enlarge.

Copper, flattened end with hole in it. Also note black paint in engine #.

[Gannet]

Hugz,

Thanks for the info including the photos. Very interesting indeed, especially, as am I right in thinking this LS is as original as it gets? Its quite made my day, although yours seem to have started off in a slightly more interesting way! Anyway, thanks for opening the crate - hope its brought you down to what is yours to play with!

With more info, we might be in a position to possibly soon speculate that the L proportioned 2 1/2" by 3 1/4" plated bar, was superseded at some point by this unplated 3 1/4" by 3 1/4" bar that is on your LS 26748, When that roughly happened we won't know until we have collected the data.

Thanks again.

Just for completeness:-
Is the transom bracket a 5.4" one?
Does the transom bracket have cotton reels?
Is the magneto cover an 'In the world'?
Is the magneto baseplate half rimless?

All the best,

Jeremy

[Hugz]

Ha ha, l just knew you where going to ask more questions. I shouldn't have packed it away. I'll drag it out again in the morning. Middle of the night here now. My fvp has lost the corner bar and has threaded bar with a nut either end. As l'm pretty sure one of my others.

Does anyone actually leave the transom bracket on a boat and use the bar/pin to disengage/remove any seagull motor from the boat?

Yes. I believe it to be original with still the seal through a nut holding the drive shaft on. Bird logo mint original too. Spark cap replaced as prevous (second) owner dropped it into the drink while underway.

[Hugz]

Wonder what the hole at the end is for?

[headdownarseup]

I'm thinking the small hole in the end could have been for a small security chain, similar to some of the older 102's. I wonder if there's any small holes drilled into the bracket. There might still be a small split pin somewhere on the bracket if it ever had a chain. Some of my 102 brackets are like this.

Without going outside or upstairs, from memory one of my LS's has the same small hole in the end, BUT without a flattened end! Slightly worrying as it's a bit earlier than Hugs LS!
Mind you it was very incomplete when i bought it as a wreck!.

More data needed i think

Jon