Can't get started

[vg569]

Hi, I'm a new Seagull owner from upstate New York, USA. I built a wooden boat based on an old design (clinker I think it's called in Britain) and I wanted an appropriate 1-2 hp engine for it so I bought a forty featherweight (1969) from someone near me on Ebay. The previous owner showed a picture with it running. It was in very nice shape when I recieved it in a box last fall. I put in my garage and left it there for the winter.

A few weeks ago I tried to start it for the first time to no avail. I should first say I mistakenly tried to start it by pulling it counterclockwise 4-5 times. Then I realized my mistake and didn't do it again. I propped the engine in a plastic garbage can with water to the appropriate level. Pulled the cord many times, no start. Gas is flowing out of the carb when I push the little button. Spark plug is wet.

I checked the points, they are not bad looking offhand, reset the gap to .2. I believe I have a Wipac 2 ignition. When I turn the flywheel I get no spark at the points. I get no spark when I hold the spark plug ( which is now a new Champion D16) against the engine block.

I checked continuity with a multimeter. There is continuity (no resistance) from one end of the spark plug wire to the other. There is no change in near zero resistance across the points when they're open or closed. There is little to no resistance from either of the points to the motor block.

What is the next step? I hope I didn't hurt something by turning it the wrong way initially. Am I suppposed to see spark at the points or spark plug just by turning the flywheel by hand?

I've searched other posts, but none seem to exactly fit my situation. Thanks so much for your attention and time VG569

[Keith.P]

You will not get a spark at the points, have a look at the FAQ page http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/faq/faq.htm

[skyetoyman]

I give mine a squirt of quick start if I have any problems. At least I know if it sparks enough. Only runs for seconds.

[headdownarseup]

clean those points again.
regap them and this time you could also try spinning the engine's flywheel with a powerdrill and suitable sockets to fit the top nut.

has the engine been run at all in the last couple of years?
what may have happened is the flywheel magnetism may have reduced, thus giving a weak or no spark.
see faq's for more advice on this.

jon

[vg569]

I read in one of the posts that spinning the flywheel is appropriate only for the Villiers ignition. No? One of the replies above says I shouldn't get a spark at the points. Getting confused. I will re clean the points and then try to start with ether. If that doesn't work I'll be back...

[Stelios_Rjk]

Wipac ignitions usually don't loose their magnetism, according to what John says on the FAQs. Spinning with a drill is suggested for Villiers MK1 ignitions.

Points should not have spark. Or at least a weak spark is OK. Strong spark at the points means that the condenser is dead or dieing.

Try to measure the resistance between the metal bit where the HT lead fits in (see picture) and the base plate.

wipac.JPG (12.29 KiB) Viewed 2958 times

Rub the metal surfaces in case there is some corrosion.

In case you see resistance (around 5000ohms or 5Kohms) that means that the coil is OK.

[vg569]

I get between 5 and 10 thousand ohms doing that. This weekend I'll try some starting ether. I'll let you all know... fingers crossed!

[denchen]

The smallest bit of muck on the points will stop you getting a spark. Clean the points again with fine sand paper, I was always told not to use emery cloth, and give them a spray with with an electrical cleaner. MAF cleaner works well. To make a good job I take the points out and clean them with a very fine diamond file. Years ago before the days of electronic ignition, we touched the contacts onto a fine bench grinder. The low tech gap for the points I always use is the thickness of a thumb nail........

[Stelios_Rjk]

Spark plug gap? Maybe oils stuck on it during winter?

[headdownarseup]

points must be as clean and oil/dirt free as possible.

recheck the points gap again 20 thousandths of an inch or 0.50mm, same with the plug. do your points have a plastic cover over them? (this can sometimes hold a little moisture) remove this altogether and let the points "breathe"
as per earlier post by stelios, where the ht lead enters the coil, clean the contact and also the spring plunger on the end of the plug wire.

unusual for a wipac to "die", but i suppose it can happen?

jon

[Hugz]

unusual for a wipac to "die", but i suppose it can happen? jon

I believe one died on the Australian murray river adventure. Surprised me too.

[vg569]

Back again, still no start. Tried ether to no avail. I have 5000 ohms resistance across the coil. No resistance in spark plug wire but also no resistance across the points even when they're open. I assume that's not good. Will try to clean them more aggresively.

[Stelios_Rjk]

Do you have continuity on the HT lead? That means zero or a couple of ohms when measuring the resistance on the HT lead.

Gap of points and spark plug?

[vg569]

Yes there is continuity across the HT lead. I cleaned all the contacts from the points to both ends of the HT lead. New spark plug.

[Stelios_Rjk]

If you pull the cord while the spark plug is connected on the spark plug cap. And the spark plug is in contact with, say the exhaust, or any metal part close to the cylinder head, do you see spark on the spark plug?

In case the spark plug has fallen down and there is no proper gap or no gap at all there will be no joy also!

Another point that we have to accept is that there is something wrong. I have also been trapped in such occasion thinking that everything is fine. Especially with the simplicity of these engines, that can sometimes makes it even worse! So ahead to find what's wrong.