ESC Silver Century Ignition (WIPAC MkIII) quirks

[mdraeger]

Hey Guys,

I have somewhat recently acquired a ESC Silver Century with an electronic CD ignition (WIPAC Mk III) that is behaving somewhat strangely.

When I bought it, the previous owner told me that it has no spark (which lead to me getting it for a price too low to pass it up)
After having it in my workshop, I started checking everything (Spark plug, HT-Lead, spark plug boot) everything on the outside seemed OK. (I couldn't however change the HT-Lead since that requires flywheel removal)
I then wanted to remove the flywheel to check if the HT-Lead is loose, or if that is not the case change the ignition module.
Before hammering on the crankshaft to get rid of the flywheel with a helper suspending it, I drenched it with WD-40, then heated it slightly and then hammered away, to no avail ... flywheel was stuck and I basically gave up for the day.
However, before leaving I thought i should just measure with a multimeter in the spark plug boot if there is really no voltage when I turn the flywheel. Sure enough, after trying that I could see voltage every time I turned the flywheel.
Put the whole shebang back together and had a spark, the seagull then fired right up and ran nicely for almost 1 1/2 months with no issues whatsoever.

A week ago, I encountered another no spark issue, which was gone after cleaning the spark plug boot (so I assume this was actually related to a corroded boot)

Yesterday, when we were coming in after a nice sail (came back in complete darkness) on the way to the dock the wind died and I wanted to start the seagull to make the way back (we hadn't used it for the day since we could easily sail out) sure enough, it didn't fire up, nothing ... I assume the seagull was trying to get us back for not using it to get out of the mooring area ... luckily it's evil plan didn't quite work out since the wind picked back up again and we could make it back to the dock after waiting for 10 minutes or so.

Yesterday night I checked again what's causing the no spark issue (it wasn't a corroded spark plug boot) and I couldn't find any issues.
Today I went out to buy a larger hammer to get the flywheel off, repeated the same procedure as initially (with drenching in WD-40) still couldn't get the flywheel to come off, but guess what??? The spark was back again!

So now I am a little puzzled, I am happy that the Seagull is up and running again, but I have some trust issues now ...
What the heck could be causing this behavior? My best guess so far is, that the spark plug lead is not properly connected anymore on the inside (or corroded) and flooding it with WD-40 gives me a connection temporarily?
Or could it be that something on the ignition module is broken and whacking it brings it back into the right alignment to function properly? (Then the motor should stop working way more often, since we transport it in the trunk of a car)

Or is the ignition module on it's last leg and I should really swap it out for another one?

So if anybody has a good idea, or has experienced similar behavior of a Seagull with a CD ignition please let me know!

Thanks

Marius

[Stelios_Rjk]

Hi Marius,

That seems to be a connectivity issue. WD-40 doesn't give connectivity. I dipped a mobile in the sea and then in WD-40 to save it. It removes water and moisture. So after a day in the sun the mobile actually worked (not sortcircuiting etc).

I believe that the impacts may move the loose HT lead.

In case that the flywheel is too stuborn to come out and you are close to bend the crankshaft, then CharlesUK could show you an innovative puller he had used. It's on a topic I can't locate.
Any other puller would lead to more damages.

[mdraeger]

Still haven't actually been able to take off the flywheel, I suppose I will shoot CharlesUK a PM and see if he can give me a hint what that puller would look like.

Now the seagull is becoming a real beast, I can test it in the garage and it usually works, as soon as I go out and I kind of need the motor (today small rip in sail) ... it has no spark anymore. So there is no arguing about it, I need to open it!
It's especially annoying because judging by the symptoms it really seems as if just the HT-Lead is loose ... but this flywheel is so stubborn.

I've read somewhere that drilling out the woodruff key can also help? Does anybody have experience with that? I have a new fitting woodruff key, so replacing it wouldn't be an issue.

Oh also, in case this turns out to be not fixable without bending the crankshaft, how much is a new / used crankshaft usually?

Best,

Marius

[Stelios_Rjk]

I finally locate the post!

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4265&hilit=flywheel ... =15#p34366

[Charles uk]

In the early 1990's Seagull started drilling & tapping 3 x 2BA holes into the steel collar in the center of the Mk4 Wipac flywheel so that a bespoke puller tool could be used for flywheel removal, they must have looked much like the one H-A made above.

Mine is very similar to H-A's excepts it has a central pointed bolt for pulling, sorry no pics.

Drilling & tapping the threads is difficult with the flywheel in position so a few years ago I came up with a different idea.

If you drill & tap the existing hole (4mm dia) in the flywheel collar 2BA, the drill guide (see pics) can be used to locate the position of the other 2 holes & with a long series 4mm drill they can be drilled 15mm deep & tapped, then the guide is freed & rotated 60 degrees where 3 more holes in the guide will allow it to be fastened to the flywheel so that a conventional 3 legged puller can be used.

Sorry the important pics are out of focus.

All my CDI flywheels are now drilled & tapped as flywheels & crankshafts are no longer available new.

[mdraeger]

That looks really nice!

So just to make sure that I understand that right.
The flywheel has a steel collar in the middle (is that also true for the MkIII flywheel?) which already has one hole in it (besides the small hole that takes the guide pin for the steel extension where the flywheel pulley is attached to) that can be tapped and used as a guide to align the other two to-be-drilled and tapped holes?

That drill guide that you also use for pulling, did you make that yourself or where does that come from?

Thanks,

Marius

[Charles uk]

The flywheel has only 1 hole in it & that,s for the dowel that's used in the aluminium spacer below the starter cup to prevent it slipping on the higher compression motors.

All Wipac flywheels have the cast in steel collar, I made the drill guide/puller bosses myself.

[mdraeger]

OK, sorry now I am a little bit confused.

You said:
If you drill & tap the existing hole (4mm dia)

Is that the existing hole for the spacer that you used, or did I misunderstand which existing hole you were talking about?


Also one other point is not completely clear to me:

" then the guide is freed & rotated 60 degrees "

The guide that you used doubles as the attachment for the puller, is that right? What is the point of drilling first and then rotating it by 60 degrees? Are there 2 different hole types on the guide?

Thanks again!

Marius

[Charles uk]

Take yours to bits & you'll see what I'm talking about.

[Renaud]

Hello All

Very fine idea .
for Charles : Could you post a drawing + all the sizes about this "additive circular item" below the puller (cf yours pics) .
I think this is the best way for removing the flywheel without a "hammer chock"... ( Idon't like to hit a engine ....)
So to do this item homemade, I need the sizes - Is it Possibble ?
thnas for all
I have a Seagull 75 renewed in 2012 - running very well now
(I am from the other side of the Channel ...)
Thansk a lot - Renaud

[Charles uk]

Sorry there was no drawing, I just made this drill guide so I could drill the holes in the right place, without having to remove the flywheel first.

I have several Seagulls with CDI's on which all the flywheels have been done.

The step on the guide was an after thought so that a 3 legged puller could be used, I don't use one on mine & I don't have a picture of mine.

[Renaud]

Thanks Charles
Just an infos which is the dia. of the end of the crankcase - threaded part side- , (sorry I have not the engine front of me now ......)

[Stelios_Rjk]

If you are talking about the crankshaft end threading, this is 7/16" x 18TPI (BSF). The three rods that pulls the flywheel looks like 5/32" or 3/16" (M4 or M5). The threading that you could use depends on the availiable equipment and the bolts etc that are cheap and availiable in your region.

[Renaud]

Hello Charles

That Ok - Thanks a lot
some job during the week end ...

Nice idea really..

[mdraeger]

After almost a year I feel like I owe everyone a followup (I don't like forum posts that aren't getting solved )

So I initially started building a puller and was basically all set to use it, when other projects during the winter and spring have kind of distracted me from working on the seagull.
Early summer, since we needed the motor (using an electric trolling motor in place of the seagull doesn't even come close ) I started looking into it again and realized that for drilling and tapping I would at least need a tap extension since the tap set that I own seems to be kind of short, so that delayed the whole project somewhat again...

After a very unpleasant experience of not being able to get out of the cove from where we launch (high wind + current... did I mention that electric trolling motors don't even come close to the raw power of a silver century seagull? ) with subsequent loss of battery power that somewhat complicated retrieval of the boat, the time had come for me finally getting that flywheel off ...

Since I wasn't really happy with spending $35 for a one time job with a tap extension, I figured that I would give the hammer method one more try.
This time I heated it up with a propane torch (used a heatgun before) and instead of WD-40 I used a heavier oil (Marvel Mystery Oil, weird stuff, but works pretty well as a penetrating oil) that doesn't evaporate / burn that quickly. Also instead of the really heavy hammer (I think 4 lb) I switched to a 16 oz hammer.
What can I say, it wasn't that hard after all ... took me about 4 really sharp blows (it required more force that I would have thought) and the flywheel came right off.

The Mk III ignition itself actually looks completely fine from the outside (as expected) it didn't seem to me as if the HT-Lead was loose, however I cut a good piece off and re-attached the wire after measuring it's continuity back to the coil. It went from having no spark to running again.
Truth be told, however, I don't trust it yet and am currently looking for a replacement Mk III ignition... (or a whole set of parts to put a Mk II ignition on the motor) but I will certainly test if it is going to get us out on the water this weekend.

Thanks for all your help!

Marius