Hi,
ok so at 40 years old and owning seagulls since I was 12 I have a problem I cannot fix.
I was asked to look at the motor for my sister who bought it 15 years ago and stored it in the shed, on it's side, carb up, no fuel, no cover since she bought it! Lots of stuff went on and now after a messy divorce she has a new boat.
Motor was seized. I have totally stripped it, freed off the piston with a large hammer and an old bannister, use of both the oven and freezer, a lot of boiling oil and a can of air freshner. My wife must love me!
Rebuilt using new rings as I managed to break one. (Gummed up, last 1/8" gave out right by the pip)
Broke the bore glaze with 240 grit glass paper.
Timing is 23 and a bit.
Compression 101 PSI
No crank case leaks
Bushes have 0.001 to 0.002 slack (worse at top at 0.002)
Plug and points 0.020 ( both work in my silver century)
New fuel at 10:1
Needle is No3 set flush
problem is starts, runs for a bit , and dies.
touch throttle and it dies much quicker.
What next? SJP 1785G5
40 plus non runner
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
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Charles UK
Work right through the fuel system from the tank to the carb, it sounds like a carb problem.
The compression is magnificant so it's nothing mechanical.
You seem to have sparks so that should be OK.
So the carb & it's flow of life giving fluid that must be the problem.
If it starts it should go forever providing it's getting fuel.
The compression is magnificant so it's nothing mechanical.
You seem to have sparks so that should be OK.
So the carb & it's flow of life giving fluid that must be the problem.
If it starts it should go forever providing it's getting fuel.
Start with the easy and the obvious.
Fuel tank vent
Check flow of fuel though in tank filter, tap, filter on carb inlet. (the flooding botton does that really)
Check float and needle valve for correct operation and level.
Strip and clean carb. If necessary clean jet with something that won't damage it (I use copper wire)
SJP makes it old enough to be fitted with the Villiers magneto. Visually inspect the coil.
Always consider changing the plug if in trouble but that does not sound the likely cause of the problem.
The timing is correct when the magneto base plate retaining screw locates in the notch in the casting.
Fuel tank vent
Check flow of fuel though in tank filter, tap, filter on carb inlet. (the flooding botton does that really)
Check float and needle valve for correct operation and level.
Strip and clean carb. If necessary clean jet with something that won't damage it (I use copper wire)
SJP makes it old enough to be fitted with the Villiers magneto. Visually inspect the coil.
Always consider changing the plug if in trouble but that does not sound the likely cause of the problem.
The timing is correct when the magneto base plate retaining screw locates in the notch in the casting.
Thanks for the replies.
Tank vent is clean and working.
Tank tap is clean and working (no filter fitted to this tap?)
Banjo bolt filter is clean
Float is set correctly and floods on the button.
I have stripped the carb and can find nothing wrong, jet is clear, needle is not bent.
Todays plan is to strip the carb again and soak in solvent in the hopes that I have missed some gunk.
regards
Phil
Tank vent is clean and working.
Tank tap is clean and working (no filter fitted to this tap?)
Banjo bolt filter is clean
Float is set correctly and floods on the button.
I have stripped the carb and can find nothing wrong, jet is clear, needle is not bent.
Todays plan is to strip the carb again and soak in solvent in the hopes that I have missed some gunk.
regards
Phil
The carb is so simple that if you have checked/cleaned it once it is unlikely to be the problem.
A couple of obvious things to check. That the jet is correctly fitted with the retaining screw in the slot, not the round hole. That the spring is in place below the head of the needle. Also is the carb properly fitted to the stub on the block with no air leaks.
Once you have eliminated the carb start looking at the plug and ignition system but it does sound as though it is starting on the surplus fuel present from initially flooding it but then not picking up fuel from the jet. (worth tickling it to see if it keeps going perhaps.)
Assuming it still has the original Villiers mag it'll have a separate condenser (In the box below the points) however a failing condenser makes them progressively more difficult to start and that's not your problem.
BTW there should be a filter on the top of the tap sticking up into the tank.
A couple of obvious things to check. That the jet is correctly fitted with the retaining screw in the slot, not the round hole. That the spring is in place below the head of the needle. Also is the carb properly fitted to the stub on the block with no air leaks.
Once you have eliminated the carb start looking at the plug and ignition system but it does sound as though it is starting on the surplus fuel present from initially flooding it but then not picking up fuel from the jet. (worth tickling it to see if it keeps going perhaps.)
Assuming it still has the original Villiers mag it'll have a separate condenser (In the box below the points) however a failing condenser makes them progressively more difficult to start and that's not your problem.
BTW there should be a filter on the top of the tap sticking up into the tank.
Hi,
Cleaned the carb. Found nothing.
It has a 7j jet, M7j holder, N0.3 needle. The needle spring is in place and the screw set flush. Is this all correct?
Also the holder sits just proud of the bottom of the thoat. Is that correct?
The Holder screw is in the slot, not the hole.
It starts every time, four strokes a bit, pumps water, picks up then spits out the carb and dies. max run time 30 secs. Tried all combinations of throttle and choke.
Ran up my century with the plug, points and fuel.
No bubbles or drips from the crank case or head gaskets.
Confused? I am, will float test it at the weekend if I can't get it to run. Bet it sinks!
regards
Phil
Cleaned the carb. Found nothing.
It has a 7j jet, M7j holder, N0.3 needle. The needle spring is in place and the screw set flush. Is this all correct?
Also the holder sits just proud of the bottom of the thoat. Is that correct?
The Holder screw is in the slot, not the hole.
It starts every time, four strokes a bit, pumps water, picks up then spits out the carb and dies. max run time 30 secs. Tried all combinations of throttle and choke.
Ran up my century with the plug, points and fuel.
No bubbles or drips from the crank case or head gaskets.
Confused? I am, will float test it at the weekend if I can't get it to run. Bet it sinks!
regards
Phil
It's alive!
Just been out and rechecked plug, points, carb, fuel filter, float level, timing. Found nothing wrong.
Pulled the string, start, run, die. Same old same old I thought.
Now having pulled this string for 3 weeks with no success I was about to dump it in Portsmouth harbour, but no one more pull can't hurt.
2nd pull sprang into life. No idea why. Must not like the idea of going swiming!
Thanks for the help and support
Phil
Just been out and rechecked plug, points, carb, fuel filter, float level, timing. Found nothing wrong.
Pulled the string, start, run, die. Same old same old I thought.
Now having pulled this string for 3 weeks with no success I was about to dump it in Portsmouth harbour, but no one more pull can't hurt.
2nd pull sprang into life. No idea why. Must not like the idea of going swiming!
Thanks for the help and support
Phil
Worth reading the FAQ section on the website. It says there that the adjusting screw should be flush or up to 1 turn down. Further on it says you can run on 16:1 (or even 20:1) without changing the needle but it will need readjusting, up to 3 turns down. My Featherweight runs on 25:1 with a no.2 needle but in order to get it to run without four stroking I have it set just a tad more than 2 turns down.The needle spring is in place and the screw set flush. Is this all correct?
Also the holder sits just proud of the bottom of the throat. Is that correct?
Forgot to mention that there should be a washer under the head of the centrepiece (jet) See the diagram in the FAQ section of the website.
The throttle piston will be just up a touch when closed. The adjustment is the idle speed adjustment on the throttle cable end.
Things can only get better, I hope.
Getting ready for the weekend I pulled my best century out for a clean and test run (fitting it as aux to my sisters boat this weekend)
Ran up 2nd pull. Then as I was waiting for the water to drain, it slid down the wall and dented the fuel tank badly. Can't type what I said!
Drained the tank and put it in my car along with my tools. Nothing much I could do about the fuel tank so got the 40+ back out of the shed for extended run in the tank. Just to make myself feel better.
Back to the usual, fires up and dies. Flushed the fuel tank and filtered the fuel 5 times, no debris found. Back out to the car for the plug from the century. Rechecked points, float height, banjo filter, stripped the carb. Nothing found. Changed the plug, again new fuel. Got the century out of my car, old plug, old fuel, fires up and runs no problem, that fuel tank looks horrible with the dent!
Tried every needle height adjustment. Could make it not start but not able to improve, start, fart, spit and die.
Whats next? Never ever have I had a problem like this. My sister needs a new mooring, any one got a sinker mould big enough for a 40+
Getting ready for the weekend I pulled my best century out for a clean and test run (fitting it as aux to my sisters boat this weekend)
Ran up 2nd pull. Then as I was waiting for the water to drain, it slid down the wall and dented the fuel tank badly. Can't type what I said!
Drained the tank and put it in my car along with my tools. Nothing much I could do about the fuel tank so got the 40+ back out of the shed for extended run in the tank. Just to make myself feel better.
Back to the usual, fires up and dies. Flushed the fuel tank and filtered the fuel 5 times, no debris found. Back out to the car for the plug from the century. Rechecked points, float height, banjo filter, stripped the carb. Nothing found. Changed the plug, again new fuel. Got the century out of my car, old plug, old fuel, fires up and runs no problem, that fuel tank looks horrible with the dent!
Tried every needle height adjustment. Could make it not start but not able to improve, start, fart, spit and die.
Whats next? Never ever have I had a problem like this. My sister needs a new mooring, any one got a sinker mould big enough for a 40+
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twostrokenut
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 6:35 pm
- Location: Norfolk
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twostrokenut
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 6:35 pm
- Location: Norfolk
Hi.
done the ebay thing and got a 40+ no spark, £21 (duff coil). Swapped out stator plate, fuel tank and flywheel from my "starts and dies". Result, new motor runs badly but better than original. 20 mins + with a lot of waggling. Put my old carb on it, does not run.
Problem must be carb. All clean, filter now in tank, set to basic settings.
?
Are new jets and needles available?
At a loss as to what is next?
regards
Phil
done the ebay thing and got a 40+ no spark, £21 (duff coil). Swapped out stator plate, fuel tank and flywheel from my "starts and dies". Result, new motor runs badly but better than original. 20 mins + with a lot of waggling. Put my old carb on it, does not run.
Problem must be carb. All clean, filter now in tank, set to basic settings.
?
Are new jets and needles available?
At a loss as to what is next?
regards
Phil
Now usually I'm I nice guy, but.....
Still unable to have a working seagull!
Current bitsa is the non-running Bay job with my stator plate, my tank, my fuel hose, my HT lead.
Starts, runs, pumps water and dies. What I have found is the the union for the fuel line (Banjo bolt end) has a crack and leaks fuel. Will tick over at low revs without water running. A real nice pop pop pop, will do this for 15 mins but gets well hot! When the water starts the sparkles stop! Nice clean spark plug though!
Took my nasty century fuel line and cobbled the fittings together with some silicon hose to make new fuel line. No more fuel leaks! (Bay job no fuel line)
I am thinking the head gasket is leaking water on the Bay job. Also the original motor did run well last week, OK so only once but responded well to the all throttle settings.
Question, can I fit the CDi stator plate from my nasty century to the 40+?
Tomorrow I plan to put the original motor back together, with the "new" fuel line and try it with the Bay job carb and the original carb, will use my full selection of plugs and hope to have a runner! Will also be getting my nice century back off my sisters boat to replace that dented tank! (with the Bay job one)
I am waiting for a recoil start to arrive as my back is killing me!
If I don't get there tomorrow the whole lot is going on the Bay and I will buy a Honda, well I'll keep my nice Century, fully intact chrome, recoil start, clutch. Roast beef, oh, are, ya!!!!!!!!
Any other ideas?
Phil
Still unable to have a working seagull!
Current bitsa is the non-running Bay job with my stator plate, my tank, my fuel hose, my HT lead.
Starts, runs, pumps water and dies. What I have found is the the union for the fuel line (Banjo bolt end) has a crack and leaks fuel. Will tick over at low revs without water running. A real nice pop pop pop, will do this for 15 mins but gets well hot! When the water starts the sparkles stop! Nice clean spark plug though!
Took my nasty century fuel line and cobbled the fittings together with some silicon hose to make new fuel line. No more fuel leaks! (Bay job no fuel line)
I am thinking the head gasket is leaking water on the Bay job. Also the original motor did run well last week, OK so only once but responded well to the all throttle settings.
Question, can I fit the CDi stator plate from my nasty century to the 40+?
Tomorrow I plan to put the original motor back together, with the "new" fuel line and try it with the Bay job carb and the original carb, will use my full selection of plugs and hope to have a runner! Will also be getting my nice century back off my sisters boat to replace that dented tank! (with the Bay job one)
I am waiting for a recoil start to arrive as my back is killing me!
If I don't get there tomorrow the whole lot is going on the Bay and I will buy a Honda, well I'll keep my nice Century, fully intact chrome, recoil start, clutch. Roast beef, oh, are, ya!!!!!!!!
Any other ideas?
Phil