newer villiers carb questions

[david doyle]

Got a newer (mkII equipped forty plus) villiers carb apart. I am swapping out the long leg for a short and getting it ready for a hard summer of fishing and hunting and general goofing about. This is going to be the work horse so I can keep precious shiney and on the display rack.

I see that the adjusting screw at the top of the throttle valve piston is screwed wayyyyyy in. I was under the impression from the manuals that this screw was suppose to be flush with the top of the piston. My question: Is there any reason why someone might have screwed it in so far? Should I be looking for any subsequent damage from it having been this way?

This carb has a plastic bowl and it came with no gasket. I assume there should be one?

One other thing I about this carb is that both the carb to block retaining fitting and the top of the throttle body that the throttle cable threads into are Bronze? My other two carbs are not such. My instinct is to switch them out and put the yellow metal on my beloved yellow metal minty engine (precious). Seems odd that they would down graden aluminum throttle piston, plastic bowl and then then change those little bits to bronze? Maybe they came from some other gull?

While I am babbling this engine also had an Aluminum exhaust tube. Was this stock or did someone make it at somepoint? This engine suffered a tragedy at some point as I found a crack in the magneto plate $ $. so thought maybe the tragedy may have damaged the OEM tube. (hey I can't be the only guy to have backed a trailered boat into a tree ) On the plus side with a complete plate on the way my spares bag will have an extra wipac coil and points.

One thing this project has taught me is that I like the older gulls much much better. Think I'll avoid the 70s from now on. brass tanks and villiers coils only from here on out.

[1650bullet]

The screw has probably been played around with by someone.Its probably been screwed in 3 turns so it could be run on 20-1. Unscrew it all the way out and withdraw the needle and have a look on the needle shaft to see what number you have.No 3 is 10:1. It says that you can run 20-1 with a 10-1 needle by turning it in 3 turns or so, Ive tried it and had nothing but trouble. so if its a No 3 just leave it flush and run 10-1. Have a look at the needle to see what numbers you have. (YOU MAY NEED A MAGNIFYING GLASS ITS THAT SMALL)

No 2 or '2 & 1/2%' (or a needle with nothing on it at all!) All are converted 25:1

Whatever number you have use the correct fuel mix. As for the plastic carb bowl. I reckon there the best to have because you dont need any tools to remove it and it floats if you drop it into the water. Its easy to remove and blow out if you have a fuel blockage. Latter model seagulls had alloy exhaust tubes. What year is your motor Post up a pick so we can have a look for you.

[livewire]

As for the gasket question, no the plastic bowel 'newer type' like yours didnt have a gasket.

It doesnt matter as the gaskets dont do anything, the bowel has a hole in it.

[Vic]

Regarding the needle setting.

I have converted my Featherweight to run on 25:1. Despite having changed the needle I have found it necessary to screw the adjusting screw a tad more than 3 turns down in order to get it to run without excessive 4-stroking.

I suggest you try it as it is . If it needs choke for more than the first half minute or so then screw it out again a bit at a time.

If it starts to 4-stroke other than when lightly loaded wind it down again.

Test and adjust afloat ... not in a tank

[david doyle]

Hey thanks that was some quick help! Much obliged.

Ok took the needle out and it is a #3. There was an ugly dab of glue in there and it took three turns to bring it flush so I suspect you are right that someone altered it from 10:1. Hope they did not run it much. Thanks for the bright side of life view of the plastic bits. Never thought about the floating part LOL.

So here are a bunch of pics.

So a 67-73 Forty plus with long shaft, 10:1 and 140 SAE.



Here she is laid out and getting used to her new parts. I am slowly moving the short shaft closer so she can get used to it. I would not have tore it down nor done the leg swap but the previous owner said it did not pump much water so I needed to get into it. I flushed about a ton of rust and scale out of the block and an equal amount of skudge out of the water tube. hopefully that will help.


Something that is noticeable is how large the relief holes in the aluminum exhaust tube are. Also very noticabke how much lighter it is.


I need to decide which of these gaskets to use? one is hard and the other is a fibre material? Any guesses which will work best?







Gonna put a new HT wire on 'just cause" any suggestions for the "best" set up. Not looking for originality aiming for reliability.



Now the broken bits. The magento plate is cracked, likley would be fine but I am not keen on broken metal being anywhere near an exposed flywheel. Ordered a complete plate from fleabay. fingers crossed I did'nt flush my cash.





And the other broken bit. Gonna replace this eventually but probabley will just JB weld it and dress with a file.



Now that I am feelign a bit familiar with these 64CC gulls I am desperate to tear apart a 102

[1650bullet]

Judging by the look in the stator plate someone has tried to lever the flywheel of using a screw driver or something similar. Leave the jet needle screw flush with the top of the throttle valve piston and mix your gas 10-1 anf you will have no problems. I also see you have a Wipac ignition instead of a villiers. Wipacs are good, But they all require a point gap of there own to run good. Have a look on the FAQs Page and you will see that wipac ignitions can run a point gap from 10 to 30 thou to suit the engine. To big of a gap and there is little or no spark. Or to small of a gap the engines timing feels as thow its out. If i can suggest to start of with a 16 thou gap first and see how you go. My 40-plus with wipac ignition is running a 10 thou point gap.


And one more thing. Dont expect to catch or shooting anything if your going hunting using a seagull

[david doyle]

Thanks a bunch on the 16 thou starting point.

Noise aint a problem. Can't legally shoot anything while the motor is running or even on the transom. Truth be told an old frenchmen trick in the Canadian bush is to leave a chainsaw idling on a stump. Back off and have a smoke and read the paper. If there is a moose within 2 miles they can't resist and just have to come see what the racket is about. . Works like a charm. Years ago I was in a camp where a guy fired up a saw at 3 am and then went back to sleep at first light there was moose standing 50 yards from his tent, bang flop. If they come to stihl just imagine what a seagull could draw in LOL.

What the seagull is gonna do is allow me to travel. Be able to get a flat bottom dragable boat over beaver dams etc to access areas that no one would lug or risk thier new honda 4 stroke to get to. I got 4 spare props and a bag of springs 600 pounds of moose meat in the freezer saves a pile of grocery store cash for seagull parts and wrench time.

[phil]

If you check through the Faqs and the Seagull repair manual you will find that the Seagull company said it was ok to screw the needle in as much as 3 turns from flush. This does Not allow one to run at 20:1 but, in the 15:1-16:1 range to be determined by varying the fuel ratio until you get suitable performance from the engine. However if the motor is to be run hard or long you are probably better off going with 10:1 for longevity. Again according to Seagull the engine should be 1968 or later if it is to be converted to 25:1.

It appears to me that the SJP and earlier motors indeed were much better machined and built engines, perhaps somewhat quieter as well. I like my '58-'59 SJP the best of my 40s, its the earliest one I have, hope to get a decent LS or LM sometime.

[bychance]

What does Moose taste like? Some Australians regularly eat the Fauna depicted on our coat of arms. Kangaroo is great, a bit like beef, a bit gamey, deep red and very low in fat.

I've not tried Emu.

[david doyle]

doubletap

[david doyle]

Bychance:

Moose is better then any other meat you have tasted, low fat but not dry. toss up between it and elk. Only better game IMHO is fallow deer. Of course 90% of the outcome is how game is handled afield and in the aging and butchering. Any time I hear some one say an animal was 'gamey' I hear " some one was a miserable field butcher" it only takes a few hairs on the meat to taint it. No animal is "gamey" I have killed and eaten bulls/bucks in the hieght of rut on warm days and kept the meat afield for a week and never tasted the off taste so many hunters saddle themselves with. Treat game like you are a surgeon operating on yourself and it will always taste good. I love a nice fat grass fed beef steak on the grill but moose is another level "dam good"!

If you start eating game meat everyday your tolerance for factory beef will soon have you turning green at the smell of dirty old medicine filled grocery store poison. Amazing what the homosapiens of our planet have devolved to in a culinary sense. Saftey wise grain fed meat is a recipe for ecoli where as grass fed meat is almost impossible to hurt yourself with. Just think about what the queen of england would would choose to eat? A brace of wild game birds or a pork steak? A Fallow deer loin roast or a farmed fish? Hunting lets you eat like the richest person on earth for the same price as you pay to eat like a slave. You can never eat cheaper but you can sure eat better.

As I understand it you as an australian have excellent access to game meat. An old SMLE (.303 enfield) likely costs 50 bucks in your country why not get out and cull some of those roos? Your freezer will thank you. If a rifle is too much mojo for you a bow works good to.

I ate emu for a couple weeks years ago (long story) It was good but my woman at the time was a miserable lout in the kitchen so It might be better then I remember.

[skyetoyman]

my woman at the time was a miserable lout in the kitchen

But was she game ? Nudge - Nudge - say no more !!