"Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

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Buzzook
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"Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by Buzzook »

Howdy all!

Have been press-ganged by some of our Antipodean colleagues into organising 'a run down the Murray'.

Ok, so it's only the world's third longest navigable river - 2500km, with 2000 of that continuously navigable (two weirs to get past in the upper section with short portages).

We are calling it "Summit to Sea" as it will begin in the shadow of Australia's tallest 'mountain', Mt Kosciuszko, and finish at the Mouth of the Murray in South Australia, 2500km away. At this point in time we are negotiating the timing which will be April 2013 at the earliest, and if not then, exactly a year later to take advantage of the 'optimum timing window' on the River (best weather, least idiots). [Will confirm exactly which within three months].

It will take a month overall, at 10km/hr average, running 6-8hrs/day, with a few days worth of off-river activities, so it will be a sight-seeing trip, not a race - but we'll be cutting it into two sections, so people who want to do 2 weeks rather than 4 weeks can still attend, and for those with short attention spans, it will be possible to do either a week at the beginning or a week at the end also.

The Kiwis are going to hire a shed and build a couple of dorys using some sort of quick-setting glue, slap on a bit of paint, attach a Seagull smuggled in their luggage, and hit the river. We Aussies have offered to pick up any boats or motors purchased off ebay Oz, provided expenses are paid, (so confine yourself to purchases in either Sydney or Melbourne for preference) and deliver same to Head of River. We can either store same or sell on afterwards - your preference.

We will hopefully have a paddle-wheeler as 'floating dormitory' for part of the way, and the rest will be riverside campsites, so pack the mozzie repellent, tent and sleeping bag. Food will be communally purchased and prepared, with a road-crew doing the daily shopping, including fuel. Fuel is currently AUS$1.45/L, and will probably be about 10-15% more by the time of the event. Food will be about AUS$20-25/day. Plus you will need pocket money for drinkies, and we will be staying a few nights in either pubs or caravan parks, which will be between AUS$25-50 per night. There will also be a required contribution to cover the cost of fuel for the chase boat, probably between AUS$300-500. Plus you have to get yourself to the Start Line at Albury in NSW, and get yourself home from the Finish Line at Goolwa in South Australia. These costs aren't precise, but should be fairly accurate for an estimate to assist you with budgeting and costing.

So far we have 4 potential International entries, but there is room for plenty more. Anyone interested you have 18 months (at least) to plan, organise a Leave Pass, negotiate with the Holiday Planner and the Finance Minister, and get your snow-white, un-tanned, northern-Hemisphere arse Downunder.

Google "Albury NSW Australia" and zoom in on Hume Weir, about 20km east of Albury. The section above the Weir, from Khancoban down to Lake HUme, is 'optional' as it is seriously fast-flowing and apparently 'moderately' dangerous. The balance of the river varies between shallow and deep, with numerous submerged logs (snags) and hard-clay 'bars' to catch the unwary. Locals who have actually motored the entire length inform me it is eminently do-able - with care - and the lower reaches, separated by locks, are essentially millponds with exceptional scenery included.

Anything could happen, and probably will. All we can promise you for sure is the trip of a lifetime! :)

Email EOI to ozseagullgroup@gmail.com

Cheers
Mark
PS: If you need to ask 'why' - you're on the wrong forum!! :D
gullible, a. The effect on reason of the appearance of anything 'Gull-related on an internet sales site
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Hugz
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by Hugz »

What an exciting concept! I have faith in the seagulls but am thinking the hulls may need to be stronger than plywood or at least glassed. I was talking to a chap the other day who attempted the Murray in a plywood boat but, alas, breached the hull on an almost daily basis. As much as I have a distaste for plastic or ali boats they maybe the go.

I would imagine there will be some media interest. Might need a physio about for these old bones.
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Buzzook
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by Buzzook »

I'm planning to carry epoxy and cloth, for just such contingencies, but my local contacts tell me if you are sensible (rather than careless) the possibility of ruptures is slim - but 'bumps' are quite likely.

Having said that, I've seen cases of even ally boats being 'ruptured' by hitting something hard or sharp, so even that hull material should not be considered immune from punishment. And glass will rupture as readily as ply, especially if the 'wrong' part of the hull gets hit, such as the thin sections between ribs or reinforcing chines.

I am however hopeful that in the 'middle' section of the river, where such danger is likely to be at it's worst, we will be 'lead' by a paddlewheeler, and I am assured by the driver of one such vessel that they throw out a 'pulse' ahead of them, like a pressure ripple, which can be easily 'read' by an experienced skipper, and thus shallows and 'snags' avoided.

Our ability to thus avoid danger will also be largely dependent on the water levels, which in turn are based on recent rainfall levels, as the upstream dams release more water to stabilise in and out-flows. If there is a drought and the levels are low, we may be in for an 'interesting' trip, but given the almost year long rains we have had recently, and the prospect according to long-term forecasts ofthe 'la Nina' (wet) rainfall pattern continuing for another 12 months, we can be hopeful of reasonable river levels.
gullible, a. The effect on reason of the appearance of anything 'Gull-related on an internet sales site
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Hugz
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by Hugz »

Another story came out about that the rising water has caused the bridges to be too low! Not that that would worry dinghies.

Maybe I can be the SOS correspondent sitting on the rear deck of paddlewheeler with the parochial Gin and Tonic... :D

Here is an interesting article written in 1963. Head winds of 50mph will be interesting.
http://www.coastguard.com.au/OHR
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The Tinker
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by The Tinker »

I think a dory would be a great boat to use. One of the Whangamata competitors used one on the Waikato last year with a 2.5 with no problems. 12mm bottom 8mm sides if the edges are taped with fiber glass there should be no problem. repairs are very easy to do with ply and filler glue. As it is not a race a heavy boat like this, that is very easy to push and very comfortable would be the go. Plans are easily got hold of.
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Charles uk
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by Charles uk »

OOOOOH! this could be fun!

2000k in a month that equals 65 k a day, I think you might have go 2 Kingfishers, a 25 foot boat & 2 crew to keep up that average.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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The Tinker
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by The Tinker »

Why do you think a couple of well built silver centurys are not up to the job?
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Buzzook
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by Buzzook »

You know Charles, Mike, if it won't do 20km/hr he's not interested!!! LOL [And no offence, Charles, as we've discussed this, I know where you were coming from]

Spoke to Charles on the phone yesterday, and he suggested that 2000km, at 8hrs per day (which is 240 hours almost continuous running, may mean we'll need to rebuild the motors halfway. Or at least that motors not in pristine rebuilt condition at the begining might need a rebuild before the end....

Not having run a Century (or anything else for that matter) for 240 hrs, can anyone with actual knowledge of the factory recommended servicing intervals and rebuild intervals comment about this aspect of the proposed trip?

I imagine a daily change of the gearbox oil would be possible, or at least every other day, but how long before we might need to think about bearings, bushes wearing out etc.....

Can anyone supply ACTUAL data from Seagull, not hearsay, please..... :)
gullible, a. The effect on reason of the appearance of anything 'Gull-related on an internet sales site
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Hugz
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by Hugz »

Distance between Sydney-Australia & Auckland-New Zealand is 1338.23 miles or 2153.61 Km.

Food for thought!
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Charles uk
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by Charles uk »

Spoke to Mark yesterday morning UK time.
He explained what's happening, it should be perfect for you Kiwis, slow & plenty of crap in the water which looks like tea.

Century + with clutchs, 4:1 gearbox & hydrofan prop, probably the least popular Century nowadays & therefore one of the cheapest, but they made heaps of them.
We don't like them because our 2011 eyes find them big & ugly, Seagull sold them because they were a working motor

Finding someone who has used a Seagull more than 20 hours a year in this millennium will be very difficult.

Tink why don't you give one a try?
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Horsley-Anarak
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by Horsley-Anarak »

Charles uk wrote:Finding someone who has used a Seagull more than 20 hours a year in this millennium will be very difficult.
Century three times round Hayling, Lerryn race and practice, runs on Thames works out at 30+ Hours.
Did run a Featherweight on the Norfolk Broads for a week 5-6 hrs a day 30+ hrs. They do some strange things if you run them for a long time, like start to fall apart.
Carry a spanner in your pocket and you will be fine :)

I would feel confident that I could make a couple of engines last the 1200 miles.

What would be the first thing to wear out the main bearings, or the gear box?
Box of spares, including crankcases and ignition bits. Cylinder should last, might take a couple of spare pistons and conrods.

With the correct hull giving 8-9 MPH it should be OK.

What was the design life of a Seagull running at 3/4 throttle?

I reckon all I need to enter the event is about 10,000 GBP, perhaps I could sell a kidney or one of the children.
Could look for a sponsor in the UK, Perhaps Richard Branson would want to come, " The Virgin Boat".

Would I get the pass from HID, could say I was having a mid life crisis. I would love to come if I can raise the 10 Grand.

H-A
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Charles uk
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by Charles uk »

I know what you do for a living, for the prices you lot charge, one Saturday a Sunday morning & a 7 o'clock finish on Monday should just about cover it.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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Rex NZ
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by Rex NZ »

All

Might have some answers/evidence on engine life. Thinking back to our run down the Clutha river from Makarora. Probably some 400km, say 200 Nm. At 5Kts thats 40 Hrs of flat out running 8)

The particular engine I used was a factory standard WSC in pristine condition prior to the trip. Ironically I'm working on that exact outboard right now! :idea:
* bore is perfect & still has correct hone pattern, no lip
* rings are fine & still show oem annular tooling
* piston skirts & ring grooves are like new
* mains & big end are fine
* Gearbox pinion & bearings are great. Daily oil changes with ordinary 10w40 motor oil.
* spark plug is looking decidedly tired,
* 1x prop spring did the entire trip despite several groundings. Was a bit bent by the end.
* fuel was ordinary pumpgas & 10w40 motor oil at 16:1
* driveshaft was developing a crack
* all bolts & threads were cleaned up prior to the trip with taps & dies & oiled. Helicoils fitted where req.

My plan for the next Clutha. Probably gross overkill again, but that's my peace of mind :idea:
* Specially build a motor for the job. Check EVERY single component. Ignition / carb / powerhead / gearbox / pump / everything else. If in doubt, rebuild it or replace it.
* replace all bolts with stainless & anti-seize grease
* The 'van load' of backup spares & many spare motors was overkill. Just 1x identical spare motor & a few basic spares is plenty enough.
* A motor kept in factory standard trim is really tough
* Having a clutch is great.
* Daily gearbox oil changes with ordinary 10w40 motor oil.
* Change spark plug say every second day
* Check points say each second day or convert to electronic 'Atom' type, (leaving contacts in place as backup).
* Remove & check prop-spring daily, even if no groundings
* The cooling tell-tale was essential, now have an audible tell-tale

Rex
blue
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by blue »

i ran a 102 in the mid sixties for 40 hours a week ---8-9 months a year for 3 years----i reckon i did around 5000+ miles until the engine was stolen-----maintenance schedule----start of season---new gear box oil-new plug -new points---then-----almost daily wire brush whisker off plug---every 2-3 days clean points --- every 2 weeks new plug----2 monthly top up gear box----half way through season new points----flush in fresh water never----new spring can t remember ever changing one----don t know what seagull recommended for maintenance but there was 20 boats with centurys and me with my 102 and this would be the common use and abuse----wish i could come---good luck regards blue
Horsley-Anarak
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Re: "Summit to Sea": Seagulls on the Murray

Post by Horsley-Anarak »

Is it still on?

Have spoken to some TV people this evening who will run it past some production companys.

If "Ice road truckers" works why not "Seagull boaters"

H-A
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