About to repack my SD box with 50/50 grease/oil. The box and water pump housing separate easily enough so am going to pour it in. Seems easier that using nipples. Will grease gun top bearing though. I digress... is normal automotive grease and marine grease any different?
Cheers.
Marine Grease,
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
Re: Marine Grease,
Marine grease has more corrosion inhibitors and does not disperse as easily in water.
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Collector Inspector
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Re: Marine Grease,
Marine grease is basically "Water Repellent", not something for the inside of an old gearbox.
In the old days in Australia, grease was either Shell Retinax Light or Mobil UW. Mobil UW was as black and of similar consistency to warmed Vegemite. If your old grease was black, that is what it was Huggy.
The available grease to use down under is now called Shell Retinax EP or Rhodina EP (LF). They work WITH water to maintain lubrication. Lithium and calcium soaps to achieve that.
I would not bother mixing oil in by the way. (here comes the howling down).
B
In the old days in Australia, grease was either Shell Retinax Light or Mobil UW. Mobil UW was as black and of similar consistency to warmed Vegemite. If your old grease was black, that is what it was Huggy.
The available grease to use down under is now called Shell Retinax EP or Rhodina EP (LF). They work WITH water to maintain lubrication. Lithium and calcium soaps to achieve that.
I would not bother mixing oil in by the way. (here comes the howling down).
B
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Charles uk
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Re: Marine Grease,
Tell me Bruce why you feel no oil in the grease?
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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Re: Marine Grease,
The two greases (All Greases) I mentioned, and certainly other maufacurers', have an initial oil base. This base ratio to watever else they stuff in to thicken it up and enable its unique performance is critical for the proper additive dispersent and lubricating properties. Add extra oil and the standard properties of that particular grease can not be achieved. You end up with an unknown schlop which may well be detrimental.
Schlop is neither oil or grease. Gearboxes require one or the other, not both. This is 21st C.
If you use grease, pick the correct one for any application.
If you use oil any application ditto
Petrol ditto
Oils Aint Oils and Greases aint Geeses............
Interesting Shell Info, select complete product PDF.
http://www.shell.com.au/home/content/au ... ata_guide/
B
Schlop is neither oil or grease. Gearboxes require one or the other, not both. This is 21st C.
If you use grease, pick the correct one for any application.
If you use oil any application ditto
Petrol ditto
Oils Aint Oils and Greases aint Geeses............
Interesting Shell Info, select complete product PDF.
http://www.shell.com.au/home/content/au ... ata_guide/
B
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
Re: Marine Grease,
Excellent info. Thanks Bruce. So is Shell Retinax EP easily obtained? Looks like I can use it for the kingpins in my old transit.... 
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Collector Inspector
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Re: Marine Grease,
I think it comes in a five litre can. There is a generic pump and lube line assembley that clags on top. It does not come in a grease cartridge.
Else, like me, find a friendly truck or machinery service company and take in your own container...........beers help. They get bulk drums of it and similar. BIG drums!
If you want to use this Shell product you can always find a major Shell depot close to you.
I am expecting more questions about grease with this topic.
Well done!
B
Else, like me, find a friendly truck or machinery service company and take in your own container...........beers help. They get bulk drums of it and similar. BIG drums!
If you want to use this Shell product you can always find a major Shell depot close to you.
I am expecting more questions about grease with this topic.
Well done!
B
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
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Charles uk
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Re: Marine Grease,
One of greases that Seagull specified for these gearboxes was Castrol K70 which looked like black custard & flowed just like it.
All the modern greases don't flow unless heated, so tend to leave voids that will fill with water over the course of use.
Often this water will contain salt, need I say more.
All the old Seagull paperwork I've seen never mentions EP lubricants, only SP which contains no potentially corrosive additives.
So my recommendation would be the thickest SP lube oil you can find 140, 220 or 320 if this weeps out of the prop shaft bush, thicken with 5 pumps of cheap grease & run for a couple of minutes out of water, if it still weeps try again, not waterproof or lithium, crown wheels & pinions don't seem to rust in an oil emulsion.
The chances of finding a new crown wheel or pinion are not good at all.
All the modern greases don't flow unless heated, so tend to leave voids that will fill with water over the course of use.
Often this water will contain salt, need I say more.
All the old Seagull paperwork I've seen never mentions EP lubricants, only SP which contains no potentially corrosive additives.
So my recommendation would be the thickest SP lube oil you can find 140, 220 or 320 if this weeps out of the prop shaft bush, thicken with 5 pumps of cheap grease & run for a couple of minutes out of water, if it still weeps try again, not waterproof or lithium, crown wheels & pinions don't seem to rust in an oil emulsion.
The chances of finding a new crown wheel or pinion are not good at all.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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Horsley-Anarak
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Re: Marine Grease,
I have had a couple of gearboxes that had marine grease in.
It is very difficult to get rid of. Strong detergent won't touch it.
I think I used petrol in the end to try and dissolve it.
It sticks like guano to the bed clothes.
I would use oil, the thicker it is the less drips out.
For the amount of use that most engines get, I would think that any oil would do.
But why not start with 140.
I like Charles's idea of increasing the viscosity with grease, it will all turn into a coffee coloured gloop which proves to be good at preventing rust.
H-A
It is very difficult to get rid of. Strong detergent won't touch it.
I think I used petrol in the end to try and dissolve it.
It sticks like guano to the bed clothes.
I would use oil, the thicker it is the less drips out.
For the amount of use that most engines get, I would think that any oil would do.
But why not start with 140.
I like Charles's idea of increasing the viscosity with grease, it will all turn into a coffee coloured gloop which proves to be good at preventing rust.
H-A
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Re: Marine Grease,
Marine Grease, as I noted previous, is not correct for this application as it is water repellent and will just float about in globs in the gearbox. None of the oil base will be released to actually lubricate.
Voids?
Imagine a well filled older gearbox and visulize the rotation of the gearset and shafts in bushes within it. (Have a look at the SOS page with the cutaway gearbox pic and contemplate). The flat surfaces of the gears and the small gaps at the ends of the bushes where their is rotation will actually be running in a thin zone of oil. Not touching the "grease" at all. Coriolis (Low pressure area in a fluid) actually draws the Oil Stock out of the closest grease to it This oil may be only 0.001" thick.
Yes, a void will be produced by the rotatation volume of the gear set teeth, within the grease as above. Every rotating surface will generate again, corolis and Base Oil. Check the sectional gearbox pick again.
The grease that was initially between the actual mesh/load area is of very small volume and the result will once again be a zone of base oil. Slightly more aggressive forces achive that in this case. In this small zone there are the consequences of a mesh gear set, Line of contact, path of action and zone of action forces that promote the drop out of the base oil.
So, every moving and load part has, from whichever forces, a film of "Lubrication". Base Oil Stock.
As the base oil is degraded there is a slow collapse of new grease impinging on the rotationg and meshing parts. More oil is released. (This why grease "DRYS OUT, literally).
This is why a shot with a grease gun every 20 hours or so is required. This replenishes the "Shrinking, Drying Grease" and effectivelly keeps the box grease tight. Grease tight is analogy for air tight in that nothing gets in..........like water.
Gearboxes requiring grease usually have at least two greasing points or a third small bleed screw to vent the old grease and stop damage or filling a coolant pump up with grease. Never pump new grease in when the old grease can not get out "externally".
Grease gearboxes should be inspected internally every season and cleaned out if dry grease is found. Repack with no air spaces.
So, every moving and friction surface is lubricated by oil supplied from the grease which never gets water in it untill the bulk grease drys out, shrinks and is no longer a grease tight volume.
Oil gearboxes will only have a drain refill setup, with seals or without. Every moving and friction surface is lubricated by oil supplied from a whole pile of oil that gets water into all of it. Which in the old days is not a bad thing especially when a manufacturer says that it WILL happen and to change the lubricant regular like.
As far as oil leakage when out of operation, for oil to get out, air must be getting in. Usually above the level of oil in the gearbox?
B
Voids?
Imagine a well filled older gearbox and visulize the rotation of the gearset and shafts in bushes within it. (Have a look at the SOS page with the cutaway gearbox pic and contemplate). The flat surfaces of the gears and the small gaps at the ends of the bushes where their is rotation will actually be running in a thin zone of oil. Not touching the "grease" at all. Coriolis (Low pressure area in a fluid) actually draws the Oil Stock out of the closest grease to it This oil may be only 0.001" thick.
Yes, a void will be produced by the rotatation volume of the gear set teeth, within the grease as above. Every rotating surface will generate again, corolis and Base Oil. Check the sectional gearbox pick again.
The grease that was initially between the actual mesh/load area is of very small volume and the result will once again be a zone of base oil. Slightly more aggressive forces achive that in this case. In this small zone there are the consequences of a mesh gear set, Line of contact, path of action and zone of action forces that promote the drop out of the base oil.
So, every moving and load part has, from whichever forces, a film of "Lubrication". Base Oil Stock.
As the base oil is degraded there is a slow collapse of new grease impinging on the rotationg and meshing parts. More oil is released. (This why grease "DRYS OUT, literally).
This is why a shot with a grease gun every 20 hours or so is required. This replenishes the "Shrinking, Drying Grease" and effectivelly keeps the box grease tight. Grease tight is analogy for air tight in that nothing gets in..........like water.
Gearboxes requiring grease usually have at least two greasing points or a third small bleed screw to vent the old grease and stop damage or filling a coolant pump up with grease. Never pump new grease in when the old grease can not get out "externally".
Grease gearboxes should be inspected internally every season and cleaned out if dry grease is found. Repack with no air spaces.
So, every moving and friction surface is lubricated by oil supplied from the grease which never gets water in it untill the bulk grease drys out, shrinks and is no longer a grease tight volume.
Oil gearboxes will only have a drain refill setup, with seals or without. Every moving and friction surface is lubricated by oil supplied from a whole pile of oil that gets water into all of it. Which in the old days is not a bad thing especially when a manufacturer says that it WILL happen and to change the lubricant regular like.
As far as oil leakage when out of operation, for oil to get out, air must be getting in. Usually above the level of oil in the gearbox?
B
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
Re: Marine Grease,
Your theory certainly ties in with what is happening inside the box. All moving surfaces have a film of oil on them. Outside internals have a dry crumbed consistency. I think I found this one just in time as has not much grease at all. What is there, is light tan in colour.
Anybody would think you were an engineer Bruce. I like your theory. Sounds logical.. .
No cartridges, bummer.... hate loading grease guns. Are there any trade tricks to that?
Got myself another Woo Hoo motor...
Anybody would think you were an engineer Bruce. I like your theory. Sounds logical.. .
No cartridges, bummer.... hate loading grease guns. Are there any trade tricks to that?
Got myself another Woo Hoo motor...
Re: Marine Grease,
Good news.... Shell Retinax EP2 is available in cartridges though at this stage I may have to buy a carton of 12, 450 mil @ 47Quid +10% VAT, or $82 au. Otherwise it will be a 44 gal drum.
Edit: Ok more research. Problem:
Both Shell Rhodina Grease EP(LF) 2 and Shell Retinax Grease EP 2 have Negligible Solubility in Water
https://www.cww.shell.com/wps/gpc/retri ... &format=09
https://www.cww.shell.com/wps/gpc/retri ... &format=09
Hugo.
Edit again.
Spoken to technical staff at Shell and they recommend StrombusMP which is a Stern gland oil that has a viscosity of 273 and will hold 20% water. 20 litres containers $336....
I'm leaning towards a grease that has zero solubility but giving the box a squirt every time I go out.
Edit: Ok more research. Problem:
Both Shell Rhodina Grease EP(LF) 2 and Shell Retinax Grease EP 2 have Negligible Solubility in Water
https://www.cww.shell.com/wps/gpc/retri ... &format=09
https://www.cww.shell.com/wps/gpc/retri ... &format=09
Hugo.Edit again.
Spoken to technical staff at Shell and they recommend StrombusMP which is a Stern gland oil that has a viscosity of 273 and will hold 20% water. 20 litres containers $336....
I'm leaning towards a grease that has zero solubility but giving the box a squirt every time I go out.-
Adrian Dale
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Re: Marine Grease,
Just been back in contact with Shell, The Strombus MP has now been discontinued but as luck would have it I have sourced a pail in Hobart. I really think this will be the perfect solution and any way the amount that I use it should last the years.
AJ
AJ
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Collector Inspector
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Re: Marine Grease,
Sounds really good stuff...............keep us posted as to how it performs aye?
B
B
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Adrian Dale
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Re: Marine Grease,
will do Bruce. My hope is that if I can get at least 5 hours of continuous running I'll be well ahead. The key is not to have to change oil every few hours.
Reading some old brochures, BS advised to top up every 10 hours and Change once a season. also on their actual Service sheet #13 it states " the gearbox is replenished through the slotted plug......... and the lubrication should be topped up every 15 hours of running" On the same sheet it states "Once a season........... the box should be completely drained and refilled"
AJ
Reading some old brochures, BS advised to top up every 10 hours and Change once a season. also on their actual Service sheet #13 it states " the gearbox is replenished through the slotted plug......... and the lubrication should be topped up every 15 hours of running" On the same sheet it states "Once a season........... the box should be completely drained and refilled"
AJ