Naval SD motors

[charlesp]

I have been struggling with the story that some of the SDs were made for the Navy. Does anybody out there have any evidence that the Royal Navy ever bought any Seagulls? I do know that the Royal Marines had a few in the fifties and sixties but I have never managed to get a sight of any document or photograph that would confirm the story.

I know there's a commonly held belief that SD motors with bronze bits (gear lever, bits of carburettor maybe, and copper magneto covers) were for the Navy, but after considerable research I can't find any actual evidence. Rarely did the Navy use anything small enough to require an outboard, and if they did they preferred to use oars.

I have found evidence to support the use of Seagulls by the Army (Royal Engineers usually) and very occasionally by Special Forces, and I am aware of one used by the Royal Air Force on a missile testing island west of Scotland, and I know that at least one Polar exploration team used them. But no Navy.

Over to you

[Keith.P]

I can just see it, a Special Forces opp, "Its Ok guys they maybe able to hear us coming, but they'll never spot us in this smoke".

[Hugz]

My father who was a British Naval officer during WW11 and after and has no recollection of seagulls in the navy. He did suggest asking the Naval stores if they carry parts. My SD has a crown on the skeg whatever that signifies. Maybe the royal household used it...

[RickUK]

I've never understood where Seagulls wiould have fitted the needs of any of the services, but I do have two or three with the CIESS stamp on the skeg.
There was a massive drive for aluminium for aircraft all through the war - maybe bronze was more freely available for less important applications at that time.
A lot of the scrap metal collected at the time was in fact useless or uneconomic to use for its intended purposes, but maybe it was a morale booster?

[Collector Inspector]

Probably correct that!

I have been starting defense forces inquiries down here, only started, and do not really expect anything positive back.

So, what are these marks then.......



Maybe something like "Crop Circles"

Interesting stuff but!

B

[charlesp]

Chief Inspector Engineering Stores & Supplies.

ie Made for the Ministry. I hear what you say about unsuitable metals, Rick. I have a photo somewhere of huge heaps of aluminium pans and kettles left unused in 1945. But bronze? surely the constituent metals we4re bstartegic in nature. The whole country was busy making guns and ammunition - and it's the desperaqte need for brass that has always had me wondering about those copper magneto covers.

Mind you the wackiest theory about those was to do with magnetic mines...

[Collector Inspector]

"Which Ministry" I wonder......

"Silly Walks" or "Pots and Pans are us" maybe?

"Ministry Of Home Truths" (Take Note Wikki Leaks)

This all good! Someone is sitting on the "Truth" with documentation about all of this.

We have to flush 'em out!

B

[charlesp]

I did rather labour under the illusion that on this site at least we could go about our business with no reference to Wikileaks!. But alas, no. I have been glancing at the released stuff and I've come to the conclusion that there's nothing surprising - the biggest astonishment is that Mr Assange is still walking around alive and well; he has certainly upset the good old US of A.

But as you say, someone's sitting on documentation somewhere. But I'm damned if I can find it. All I have is anecdotal (but from very strong sources), a few of the motors themselves, and loads of wild stories which are interesting but unlikely.

I have tried very hard at the National Archive, but they weeded their collections out a few years ago. I am led to believe that stuff about keywords such as 'Churchill', or 'King', or 'Spitfire' were kept whilst things relating to stuff like tin openers and outboard was consigned to the incinerator. And they call themselves an archive...

[Tony Laycock]

Hi, I was in the Royal Engineers and we definately used them along with Johnson 40's. Mainly for pushing aluminium assault craft around with various bits of engineering stores on them as well as some soldiers occasionally.

I was not much into boats in my youth so I could not tell you which model they were but I remember them having a clutch so was surprised when I bought my 40+ to find it was not the same animal I had used before.

I remember the ones we used were very tempremental and were always difficult to start. I don't think they were serviced all that regularly, but they were training engines and were probably misused somewhat.

Tony

[RAY SWANN]

Many years ago on holiday in Brittany we came across a kind of museum that had salvaged items
from the D-day landings.
They had on display equipment that had been recovered from the sea and beaches.
Just about everything was there weapons,motorbikes,even tanks.
Not sure if its still there as it was about 20 years ago,but I was wondering if they
had found any outboards used by allied forces.
If so these may have military markings still visible,and they are sure to have an email address.

I cant find it listed as it was more of a museum/scrapyard.
Perhaps the Calais tourist office may know if it still exists?

[RickUK]

I'm still at a loss as to where small HP outboard engines would have been of use in wartime - I can imagine them shunting pontoons/bailey bridge sections etc. on inland waterways, but not any seaborne functions othere than estuaries or harbours, and a boat that a Seagull could shove couldn't carry many fully equipped servicemen.