British Seagull Starting Problems!

[TopGearRules]

Please see my video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m5Ogv33BxY

Can anyone help me with this? And when i get it going, could you tell me how much it would be worth as i may sell it??! Thanks!

[40TPI]

Like the optimism, "When I get it going"!

Where to start?

It's usual to wind rope first, close choke, fully open throttle and keep the carb tickler depressed until you see a healthy stream of fuel pour out of the overflow hole in the float chamber side. Don't leave it a minute or two before you pull the cord!

If it's a total strip down we assume you properly reset the points gap at 20thou?
Assuming you have a spark, crankcase compression and no leaks in the bottom end after the rebuild, (If the piston came off was it put back on the right way up?) then favourite problem is fuel.

If you can get a good stream of fuel when you press the tickler we should be able to assume the tank and banjo bolt petrol filters are clear.........you are using new petrol and the correct oil mixture?

Didn't hear anything about checking the main jet is clear. Have you had the carb apart? Is it clean? The mixture screw is on the top of the carb slide. It is not the screw visible on the side of the mixing tube which you mentioned. If you have had the carb apart has it been correctly re-assembled? Suggest you check the FAQ section on the main site for details and pictures on stripping and re-assembling a Villiers carb if you haven't already. It is very very easy to get the main jet assembly round the wrong way and that will give the problem you have there.

As a quick test throw some petrol into the carb inlet as though it was a normal start and give it a pull to see if it will fire. better still give it some Easystart if you have any around.

Value?

Look at ebay auction prices taking note of condition etc. Most motors go for less than 100 quid most times of the year. Exception is just before the start of the summer school hols.....and there are some silly prices paid. It is generally accepted by those on this forum that there is not a living to be made in the UK renovating Seagull motors......

Hope that helps

Peter

[TopGearRules]

Hi there, i never really touched the carb, only just screwing the bowl off and back on again. I think i can smell petrol going into the block by taking the spark plug off. I do think its sparking, as i get an electric shock when its turned over. Btw, where are the points, and ow can i reset them?? Thanks

Also, i tried easy start but no luck

Is there any marine shops near the Richmond london area which will look at my seagull for free. Im not spending anymore money on this project as its already coat over £100 now.

[40TPI]

Oh.. sorry, thought it was a total rebuild.

Deep breath, pause, have a cup of tea or coffee and have a good read through the FAQ on the main site :

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/faq/faq.htm.

Then have a look at the carb drawing for a Villiers.

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/fa ... s_carb.htm

I suggest you remove it, strip it down and ensure that main jet is 100% clean clear through and the carb correctly assembled afterwards. Then be prepared to do it again. A blocked or dirty jet will cause the problems you have. Smelling petrol in the chamber is not conclusive. After pulling the motor to just short of a blister does the spark plug tip look wet with fuel? No? Then that is a good pointer to having a fuel problem.

Getting a mild electric shock when you accidentally hold the plug lead and tug the rope is not necessarily proof that you have a good spark. Neither is the spark you see when having an assistant hold the spark plug against the engine block while you pull the cord. But it is a good pointer and lets you move onto something that may be more obviously the problem.

The points are inside the flywheel. They can be checked and adjusted without removing the flywheel. They are accessed by removing the nut on the top of the flywheel. Get a good tight fitting ring spanner or box spanner on it and clout with a soft faced hammer or mallet to slacken it. Remove plastic plate underneath to expose ignition components.
Do not remove flywheel.

Having said that your motor has a blue tank and assuming the tank is original, is possibly new enough to have a Wipac Mk3 electronic ignition which doesn't have points. What is the model & ser # on the crankcase?

To check what sort of model/fit you have enter your details here:
http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/i_ ... eagull.php and follow up on the main site.

If, as you say it has good top end compression and we can show a decent spark, a full float chamber under needle valve control and a clean jet and moving throttle slide it has to run! (Bottom end compression/leaks tend to make it run badly rather than not at all unless very serious. Silly question but you did put some two stroke oil in the petrol didn't you? No oil or incorrect mixture ratio might not get enough oil on the main sleeve bearings to seal them.....)

Have a go and don't despair. Forget touting it round Richmond .......there is enough info on the main web page and in the past posts to fix anything; even without buying the service manual (Sorry John..!) Use the search feature; it is a very useful tool. You can find out 24/7 what worked for others without having to wait for an answer to a question here.

You can fix it!

Peter

[TopGearRules]

Hey there, thanks for your help so far, i really appreciate it!

I have take off the carb, seems to be okay with no dirt or muck. I washed it anyway, so i will put it back on tomorrow. My model is a 40 Minus/Featherweight from 1969 (F1642F9). The Blue tank is a custom paint job, it use to be black originally.

Ive just tested the spark again in the dark and i can defiantly see a blue spark. To be honest, i couldn't really smell much petrol on the plug, although i could defiantly smell easy start!

I dont think the points are wrong, as i never touched them and didnt fire wrong on the norfolk broads last summer when i last used it.

I did a semi rebuild, took off the block, head and carb. Although i never took apart the flywheel, carb itself, the bottom end (impeller, propellor) and most of the important parts.

If i dont get it running by this weekend, i think im just going to quit this project as its just a wast of my time really. I will probably just purchase a small suzuki outboard instead (sorry seagull fans!) and run that from now on.

Thanks for your help, i will try all your suggestions tomorrow

[TopGearRules]

Hi, sorry i fogot to say i did mix the 10:1 oil ratio right (200ml to 2lrs) Thanks

[TopGearRules]

Hi there, cleaned the carb out, and nothing. I really cant be bothered now messing around with it. Unless anyone around the richmond/hounslow area will look at it and tell me what is wrong with it, i will be grateful if they would do so.

But if i cant get it running, ill probably just end up selling it for peanuts. Sorry, but im really p*ssed off with it now and all its done is just cause trouble.

[philj]

Hi there,
don't give up! Take a look at this post, search for-
My Seagull only runs on power start!
Answer could be that the insides are dry and not sealing correctly. Put some oil in the plug hole and down the carb, wizz it round a few times, put the plug back in and try again.
Let us know what happens.
Phil

[TopGearRules]

Put two stroke oil in, turned her over, lots of smoke, and now the headgasket is leaking.

I cant be asked to do anymore, anyone want to buy it? You can re sell the new parts (all together cost £100) and sell the rest as spare or repairs. Its a 1969 Featherweight/40 minus short shaft, direct drive. No rust, new paint, looks like new.

[TopGearRules]

Actually change of plan, im stripping it all down and starting again. Could anybody send me a digital copy of how to re assemble a seagull for free?? Im really desperate and it will be £100 down the drain if i dont have this running successfully. Many thanks!

[Charles uk]

There is nothing that tells you how to reassemble a Seagull.

Why are you fixing the bits that are not broken?

Read the FAQ's & clean the carb as described, & refit the head gasket properly & check the points, change the gear oil.
This would be about an hours work leave it 24 hours for the gasket sealant to cure.
If all this has been done correctly starting should be no problem.

After reading all your posts, I don't think you & a Seagull were a marrige made in heaven.
There is no Hiteck in a Seagull, it's agricultural engineering.

[TopGearRules]

Hi there guys, thanks for all your help! Im blaming the cause on the head-gasket, as i didnt put any gasket sealent on it when i put it all together.

The only reason i took it apart, as when i was on the norfolk broads, the seagull overheated many times and really needed some TLC. Plus many things were broken (eg. throttle cable, HT lead, spark plug, gaskets ect ect.)

*REBUILD UPDATE*:

Taken everything part today, steam cleaned the block and carb (lots of muck bleughhhh) and fitted it back onto the crank case and flywheel. This is what it looks like:



Pretty neat huh?! Good compression, no blockages, so its should be fine

Ill update you more as i reassemble. Thank you all for your help, i really appreciate it!

By the way, when re sealing the head-gasket, do you spread the sealent on both sides or just one?? Thanks!

[philj]

Hi,
seal both sides of the gasket. You should also aneal the gasket if it is the old one being reused. Also make sure you oil up the moving inner workings before closing it all up.IE piston, crank, bushes and all that. I think you are cleaning all the oil out of the crank case, so make sure you put some back. This is a two stroke engine, as the piston goes up it pulls in fuel/oil through the carb into the crank case. As the piston goes down it pushes the fuel/air up into the cylinder. This all requires a good oil seal around the bushes, piston and bore. If you managed to fire it up earlier with the introduction of oil then it should be a runner again.
Best of luck,
regards
Phil

[TopGearRules]

GOOD NEWS! SHE FIRES!!!!!! 1st Pull, Success! Obversely the oiling the crankshaft, piston and other parts does effect it! Sealed the head gasket, left her for 24hrs, and vrooom!!!! LOTS OF 2 STROKE OIL BEING BURNT, BRINGS BACK MEMORIES! She feels tighter, and with new parts, she feels like new! Water pumpage (circulation) is great!

However.....

BAD NEWS! FUEL LINE BLOCKED !!!!!! ARRGGGGG!!! So, no fuel going to the carb, great !!! Ahh well, at least she works great! Those who are wondering how she fired, i filled up the carb bowl and thats how i got around the fuel line blockage problem. When this god damn rain stops i will fix the fuel line and make a video for you lot!

Also, one of my crankcase screws snapped :O Silly me lol! Im using some random screw and nut, however its too long and looks tacky! Anyone who has a spare one, ill be happy to buy it!

Thanks for your help guys, great forum and great experts on seagulls! Happy seagulling! Alex

[Charles uk]

Clean the fuel system was almost the first instruction you got!