Saving Old Seagulls

Hi, I have a lovely old 102, which I couldn't resist a while back for £50 as cosmetically it is in lovely condition. It is ACR3707L. There is no spark (and yes, I have changed the spark plug) - so I looked at the FAQ and tried the drill trick. But still nothing. So I guess I will have to get the flywheel off and look at the points. But my question really is, how will I test each of the component to know which is faulty? And is it possible or worth changing the complete base plate if I can find a spare (anyone got one?).

Thanks

Mark

Hi you dont have to take off the fly wheel just the cover
try cleaning the points with a small flat file . and make sure theres a gap..ive found that gets the spark working often enough.

Thanks - but the points seem to be fully enclosed in a brass looking cylinder? I am not sure what ignition type this is - can anyone help?

It's a Villiers ignition. The points are enclosed as you say in the brass box, whose lid comes off once the spring steel arm is rotated sideways taking its spring pressure away from the lid.

Once off, access to the points themselves is easy.

Hi, thanks for that. Presumably the villiers ignition is one of the oldest? Is this an impossible job with the flywheel in situe, or with dexterous fingers can it be attempted?

Minor differences aside, this is the second oldest.

The first Villiers one had a four spoked flywheel, which was slightly conical on the upper surface. This one was from 1931 to about 1946. The poles were large, the coil a large one, and the points box virtually identical, albeit with different points themselves.

The next one - yours - had a three spoke flywheel, flat on top, smaller coil and poles, and the same points box. the adjustment on these points was still that of the first version, by a couple of spanners. This was later replaced (by about 1950) with a screwdriver adjustment, which is easier. This is probably the one you have.

Both these Villiers ignition systems had a metal flywheel cover. The earlier ones were aluminium, or copper in some military versions. The later ones were at first plain, then bore the 'Best Outboard Motor in the World' legend, changed mid fifties to 'for the World'

In 1967 the Wipac system was introduced, soon the flywheel was painted a gold hammered finish. This version had the black plastic rope pull sheave. It continued until eventually replaced in the late sveneties by electronic ignition.

All the points systems are designed to be maintainable with the flywheel in place, and on the main site you should find a description of gaps etc.

Good luck.

As Paul says the most likely problem by far is dirty/tarnished points assuming the gap is correct. Avoid rushing to change coils and base plates until you are absolutely certain the points are making a good shorting contact. Even after taking a small file or fine grade emery board to the points it is worth a burnish with a small strip of card to remove any microscopic particles.

A narrow strip cut off a double glazing salesman's business card and just lightly nipped between the closing point faces is ideal. Repeat a few times, eventually drawing the card out with the points fully closed. A little methylated or other alcomohol on the first strip is good if you have it.

It is possible to check the points are shorting using a cheapo electricians test meter to measure the resistance across the points in the open and closed positions. The accuracy of the DMM and the exact readings obtained are not important as long it is possible to see the indicated resistance drop as the points close. A fraction of an ohm here! No change open to closed means the points are not making a good contact. Don't be surprised if after the first clean when you think you've really cleaned them they are still not shorting. Check and clean again. This is the most likely problem.

Checking coils in situ is possible using an external battery and current limiting resistor but it is more involved. Unless you have reason to believe the coil has possibly suffered damage through salt water immersion the problem is more likely to be elsewhere.

Peter

Many thanks for all your help folks. Just an update - without removing the flywheel I removed the brass cylinder lid and cleaned the points. It all seemed rather clean and tidy under there already - amazing for such an old machine. Still no current though - so what next I thought. Aha, the HT lead and plug. Well I took the plug cap off, and the end of the lead to the plug cap looked, well dodgey. So I cut a snippet of the lead to expose nice new copper, held my finger over the this, and span the flywheel by hand - and ouch! Nice current. So next step is to but a new plug cap and plug. But the main thing is, the current is there!

Fasten the wire to the end of the plug...she may just start!

The happy ending...I bought a new plug cap and plug from John. The spark was still too weak to make her fire, so I removed the plug, squirted a nice lot of fogging oil into the barrel, and span her on a drill as per the FAQ. Replaced the plug, primed the carb again, and away she went!

I bought the 102 for £50 on ebay because of the age and nice condition. Now its running, I am lucky - pumps water beautifully, and just sounds wonderful after being idle in shed for many years.

I trust I am not alone in thinking that the 102 is so much better than the century.

Well done, satisfying isn't it?

Yes I think there are many who will admit to a preference for the 102s

There is no doubt that a well running 102 is a pleasure to behold.

You can also hold a conversation with other occupants of the boat, some times this can be a disadvantage! perhaps it's better to leave her at home.
Though the ability to shout comments like "why didn't you tell me I left the ****in fuel can on the dock" would tend to disprove that!

Strewth...... if you heard the racket my '82 102 makes you would certainly rethink that it is quieter than a century. It is quite positively impossible to use. No way of quietening it down I suppose. Probably need to put some heat/water proof dampening material around the exhaust tube... any ideas?

Hugo.

methinks something is amiss with your 102. The 102 was quieter than the Century because:

- the exhaust has only one hole in it - down the bottom under the water.

- unlike the century, outlet water is part sprayed out as a tell tale, part injected into the exhaust to quieten it.