Saving Old Seagulls

Hey guys! Been a while, (as usual!) lol! Anyhoo, got a sad tale for ya's.

Unbeknownst to me, a wannabe good Samaritan tried to "rescue" my 40+ from my "sinking" skiff. The skiff is a 14 foot aluminum Lund, with enough styro flotation under the seats, and in rear pods, that it is physically impossible for it to sink. (Made to keep the motor above the water if ever swamped.) Anyways, someone in the wee hours a few days ago, decided to pull the skiff up onto the dock; I assume being afraid it would sink. Unfortunately, the road to heck is paved with good intentions, and they did something that broke the bolt that holds the two sides of the transom bracket in place, and the motor got dumped. I guess they were embarrassed, or didn't want to buy me a new outboard, so they hightailed it outa here without telling me they sank my motor. Not a note or anything.

When I went down to the wharf for my morning coffee, I was just a bit confused as to why my skiff was on top of the dock, rotated 180 degrees from the way it was tied. And then I was shocked to realize the outboard was gone! My first thought was someone stole it; but I tried to look underwater anyways, just in case. I couldn't see it. (Cloudy, light rain, not low tide.) At the next low tide, I did look again, but again, couldn't see it. It wasn't until 2 days after it vanished, that it was sunny, and a real low (.41 foot) low tide, that I saw the 40+ under the dock.

I fished it out with a pike-pole, and there was no transom bracket, so I had to fish that out too. To my dismay the transom bracket was broken as was the spark plug on the motor. (Plug tip broke off in the boot.)

Anyways, I took it apart as much as I could. cleaned everything with appropriate cleaners. Poured some undiluted 2 stroke oil into the cylinder, and pulled it through a dozen times to get everything as oily as possible. Took the pullcord plate off, and cleaned the slime off of the center shaft (and everywhere else), as well as cleaned the points with a fine emery file, and washed it all out with liberal amounts of methyl alcohol.

Righty then, I was able to replace the broken bolt that holds the two transom pieces together, and I used another bolt to replace the "L" shaped "quick release" rod. I removed the spark plug boot from the wire, and found a teeny tiny nut to tighten the wire directly to the plug.

Now here's the annoying part. IT NOW SHOULD RUN! But doesn't. I have spark. When I hold the wire near the block, and pull the engine over, I get very nice sparks. But when I connect the wire to the plug, and hold the plug to the block, I'll only get 1 spark every 1/2 dozen pulls. Tried two brand new Champion D-16's. and neither will give a consistent spark. But by gosh, I have twitched and jumped when I held the wire incautiously and zapped myself. So it has spark, every time I pull without the plug on. But almost no spark with the plug on. I checked the gap of the points, a perfect .5 mm, or 20 thousandths. Same goes for the plugs, .5mm, or 20 thou. I cleaned the carb, the jet is clear, the needle is undamaged, all parts move freely, nothing seem amiss. It's more than enough for me to scream (a few times already) "WTF is going on!!!!"

Any thoughts guys? Oh! And when pulling the starter cord, occasionally I'll get a puff of vapor coming out of the carb intake. Whut's up with that!? Part of my problem? Is it possible the exhaust has some sand or debris in it? When I pull the cord, it pulls no differently than before it was drowned. There's no extra resistance, no less resistance, seems like it's the same as it always was. (And it always was a first pull start; for the last couple years, anyways.)

Righty then, hoping you, the most knowledgeable of Seagullians, might have the answer I'm looking for.

Thanks! And thanks again!

The spark will jump at the shortest point, with the plug on, it maybe finding a shorter way.
It could be water, or just damp in the HT connections, pull the HT lead off and give all the electrics a good spray with WD40 or whatever.
I should have asked what motors it was, never mind.

Ahhh! Good thinking! And the 40+ is a 1977 with a Bing carb.

Thanks!

HT lead off, contacts cleaned. Pin on the spring was nasty. Needed abuse from emery file to get white coating off. Letting everything sit in sun to dry.

Cheers!

It may still have water or be damp in the crank case too!

If dunked in salt water it is a good idea to wash the electrics thoroughly in fresh water and then dry. Any salt residual will attract moisture and cause tracking now and later. Give it a yank in the dark and see if there are any sparks to earth.

Give it a yank in the dark and see if there are any sparks to earth.

That's one way of putting it.

Thanks for the ideas guys! First thing I did was hose everything off with fresh water for more than an hour. I just turned the hose on into the holes in the flywheel, and let it run to flush away any salt. After that, and after all was dry, I used copious quantities of methyl alcohol to finish the job. The second thing I did was fill the cylinder with undiluted 2 stroke oil, and lay the outboard on it's back so the oil would "percolate" into the crankcase. After letting it sit for a good while, I cranked the motor over a dozen times while it was laying on its back, to move the oil around, and get it into every nook and cranny.

Even in bright daylight I can see the spark when I ground out the HT wire on the block. It was just when I connected the plug that there was no spark. It sunned itself dry yesterday, and has been protected from moisture overnight. I haven't given it a pull yet today to see if it will start. It's just such a bummer! I had that thing tuned to the point that if it took more than one pull to start, I was worried! lol! Over the last couple years, I've bet, (and won) a couple dozen people that I could start it first pull. It was a point of pride to be able to start it first pull every time! And now I'm worried that it'll never run again..

Will update shortly, after I give it a few tries. I may drain the fuel, bring it up to my cabin, and set it beside my wood stove for a couple days if it won't start.

Back to ya's soon!

It sounds as though the motor wants to run but something simple is stopping it.

Go back over all the fuel system again and through the electrics once again.Oil in the crankcase is not such a bad thing, but too much might be.
Carb off and drain the crankcase of any surplus oil too.

It'll run again, just have some faith. It's a seagull after all.


Jon

I'm assuming it is a Wipac you have,I had intermittent spark when I put in the plug,it turned out to be the wire from the points to the coil was hanging in there on a couple of strands.

Looks like it's gonna sit beside the wood stove for a couple days.... Still won't go. And yup, Wipac 2. Seems to have a good spark at the plug now. And I took off the carb again, cleaned everything I could, but I can't get the float off to get to the fuel needle though. The pin that is used to hold the float to the carb is twice the length that it needs to be, so it would be impossible to remove without bending it. (Pin extends well over 1/4 inch past one side of the wee brackets.) I should probably get pics of everything. I tested the flow through the fuel needle though, using some carb cleaner, and its wee straw. Got flow going past it with float down, so it's working. The Jet needle looks perfect, all bright and shiny. Bing Carb, by the way. I don't think there are any vacuum leaks. The outside of the carb did suffer some hellacious damage from just 2 days underwater. A number of bits of aluminum along different edges have "chipped off" (That's what it looks like.) Can't be from the pike pole retrieval, since I only poked the pike pole at the bottom of the leg where the two shafts enter the gear housing. (I know; pictures.) Will take some shortly, so you can see what happened to the carb. Buuuuuut, none of the damage is where it can interfere with the carb's functioning. (Nowhere it could cause a vacuum leak.) Besides that, I stuck my hand over the air intake while pulling the motor over, and there was very good suction.

If I had to guess, there is probably still some moisture in the electrical somewhere. There is a spark at the plug, but it may not be hot enough?

Cheers!

PICTURES!



















I know, the damage looks horrific! But I think it's just cosmetic. Everything still seats flush, and seals well, as far as I can tell. Man! 2 freaking days underwater, and that is what happens to aluminum that's in contact with other metals!?! Yikes! Damned galvanic corrosion! Grrrrrr!

Anyhoo, there ya's go. Pics to ogle! lol!

Thanks again!

Cheers!

Update

Well, it's been drying for a couple more days, and still no go.

So, just now, I took apart both ends of the HT lead. Before, I had only cleaned the visible end of the spring, and cleaned the pin, not knowing about the screw at the other end of the spring, that digs into the HT lead. So I undid the screw, and the end of the HT lead was seriously oxidized. The screw wasn't in too bad of shape, luckily. I cut 1/4 of an inch off the lead, to get to clean copper wire. Ditto with the plug end of the HT lead. Gave my fingers cramps, but got that end off; and boy howdy! nasty in there! Again, cut 1/4 inch of that end, and will reattach everything once the screw & spring, and spark plug connector get out of their salt & vinegar bath. I cleaned everything as well as possible, before they went into the bath.

Maybe I won't need a new ignition, after all. Might remove it though, and soak it in some distilled water for a couple days, to make sure that every vestige of salt is gone from inside of it. (Should actually ask, before I do something like that, eh? Would that be a good, or bad thing to do?)

Thanks again!

Cheers!

I thought you could wack any of the five different mags on as long as you have the matching flywheel with it. The wipac (mk2) seems to be considered the most reliable.

Edit: Did you just change your post? I thought you asked if you could put a later mag on.

I'm going quite barmy

Hugz wrote:I thought you could wack any of the five different mags on as long as you have the matching flywheel with it. The wipac (mk2) seems to be considered the most reliable.

Edit: Did you just change your post? I thought you asked if you could put a later mag on.

I'm going quite barmy

Sorry 'bout trippin' ya out! lol! I did indeed change my post. I did originally ask about changing the ignition, but now, having just hacked the ends off the HT lead, and giving the end pieces a good cleaning, I won't be asking about changing the ignition unless the cleaned up lead, and distilled water soak of the ignition don't work. Thanks for the info though!