Saving Old Seagulls

Hello everyone!

I recently picked up a Kingfisher and an Osprey, and was looking for some advice on how to take care of them. I'm more than willing to give them the time and attention they deserve, but don't want to muck anything up too badly, given my lack of experience!

Both of them started easily, and went into gear with no trouble, but I was a little concerned at the amount of water they were pumping. I've had some experience with Centuries and Forties, but my 'new' QB's seemed to pump significantly less; perhaps half as much. How much water should ideally be exiting the block? Is a pencil-thick stream, as in the older models alright, or is less acceptable for a QB?

I've started taking the Kingfisher (KL27E0) apart, and found the waterways in the head and block to be pretty badly caked with rust. I've seen a number of different de-rusting methods discussed on the forum, but was wondering given the state it's in, what the best course of action would be. I assume this may be the reason it wasn't pumping much water!
Additionally, the internal exhaust pipe has broken off towards the bottom. Is this a major issue that requires a new part, or will it run happily in its current state?
Cheers!

Me thinks young man, you are starting the walk toward the dark side.

The QBs were designed by a very able 2-stroke designer Sir Gordon Blair, so it's safe to assume that he wasn't adding hidden bits like the inner exhaust, just to make them more expensive.

Can we assume this will be going around the island next June?

Is the motor in Devonshire this side of the Atlantic or the other?

Hi Charles,

Walking towards the dark side - perhaps, but my goal is to end up with both engines in as good of an operating condition as I can manage. They were sold to me by people who weren't really sympathetic with their needs, and their condition reflects that.

The motors are the UK-side of the Atlantic, but will eventually be taken to Bermuda, in theory. One of the great perks of attending a university in the UK is that I can travel all over the country, looking for nice Gulls!

It had crossed my mind to take it around the island - but not if it causes any lasting damage or significantly reduces its life. I would like to use these for fairly regular light to medium work, with the occasional race.

I did a bit of poking around with a screwdriver and tweezers, and managed to get a bunch of the flaky rust out of the head. Would you say that it's resusable in its current state (after a little chemical derusting) or does it need a bit of work to build the passages back up?

And here's the bit that fell off the internal exhaust! Thanks!

Chemicals won't do much good, small long screwdrivers are the first & often the best tool on this series of Seagulls, warm water tends to carry more salt so the problem will happen at home to even with good flushing.

The inner exhaust will be well corroded at the top, so you will need to remove the exhaust tube & the whole inner exhaust to clean cylinder, John has remanufactured inners.

Or Ebay : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRITISH-SEAGU ... SwcdBWT0a-

Keith.P wrote:Or Ebay : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRITISH-SEAGU ... SwcdBWT0a-

They get a bit fragile, make a new one or buy a remanufactured one.

The one on ebay look too far gone, the large hole on the RH side is where the water delivery pipe screws in, look at the state of the threads.

A picture of the cylinder mating side would show excessive corrosion, from my experience.

H A

Hmm. The internal exhaust looks like fairly simple bit to fabricate; I might have a go at building a replacement out of stainless. Does anyone know the hole size/spacing at the base? Is it another instance of mixed metric and BSF fastenings?

I've been fiddling around with the Osprey (OL123B9), and happily, the waterways are in much better condition than those of the Kingfisher. My only cause for concern is this crack at the point where the water-peashooter apparatus attaches to the head. Is this something that should be remedied in some way? Does it just unscrew from the head, or is some finesse/heat required?

I've just taken the gearbox off, and discovered something very interesting: A non-standard impeller! Judging by its appearance and construction, its been 3D printed, perhaps out of ABS plastic.

Was British Seagull ahead of the 3D printing craze by ~30 years, or is this a custom home made job? The latter, I expect!

I wonder how it will perform, compared to the real thing. It feels reasonably strong, but I imagine it's quite brittle.

Has anybody come across anything like this before?

No.

Aha! That model looks a little better than the one I have; I would imagine the fillets between each arm give it a bit more strength. Has it been printed/tested?

No, I just draw in 3D for fun.

I've noticed that the Osprey's bore is a bit scored - especially above the exhaust port. The camera flash makes them look reasonably severe, but they are only detectable by touch directly above the port. Would this be a honing job? I believe I am correct in saying that oversize pistons aren't available, so I would assume that precludes an overbore.
Are there any other options? In suppose in theory, the cylinder could be bored out substantially, and a cast iron liner with cutouts for all the ports pressed in, but it would probably be much simpler and cheaper to get a new block!

I would hone it and stick in some new rings, hard to tell how bad it is from photos.
FLEXHONE work well.

It will run but may not be a race winner

New cylinders are not available, I have bought kingfishers just for the cylinder, can be expensive, £100 is a common price, £10 was the cheapest so far.

H A

A light hone with a flexihone available from the states, horizontal scars like this are usually caused by rust from dry seizure & can also be caused by ring bounce from sharp edged ports, light damage like this is hardly noticeable at such low piston speeds.

The hone will put a small radius on the ports.

A flex-hone it is then! I'll keep my eyes peeled for a reasonably priced one.

I'm now trying to get a look at the crankshaft to see what condition it and the bearings are in, which necessitates removing the flywheel. For the non-roller QBs, are you supposed to use the hammer blow method for flywheel extraction? In the SOS FAQ, it says that 'The very late British Seagull Kingfishers etc, did advise the use of a puller', but I assume that was for the models with the fragile 3 piece crank?