Saving Old Seagulls

I've just obtained this engine SDP11287. It seems very original, with steel tank, with a tiny piece of paint left showing a bit of a gold/yellow decal. The bottom end is in excellent condition, the powerhead will need stripping and refurbishing.

Given the number it would seem to be one of the later SDs circa 1945-46. There is no ministry stamp on the skeg seen so far. Throttle lever is correct, with a brass tiller. As is the gearbox and prop.

Not sure about the chromed exhaust, driveshaft tube or the flat magneto.

Is there any information re when the flat magneto was introduced, which I thought was on the post war "C" and "D" models? Where any late SDs fitted with flat magnetos?

The engine is soaking with WD40. Good buy at £31. Couldnt say no...

First job will be to remove and refurbish the tank. First steel one I have had on the bench

I have a late SD, and I can tell you it had a flat magneto when I bought it. The vendor was adamant it was untouched since issue to one of the Scottish Islands - a base there.

It had a brass tank with a bayonet cap, and a chrome driveshaft tube and exhaust. It had one of those bronze brackets that I like.

I have wondered about the tail end of SD production - could they have run out of coolie hat magnetos? Were all the SD motors plain - or could a single order from one of the islands have produced a chrome plated one with a brass tank? I would like to think so, but the other Charles - whose opinions I respect - reckons no.

The collective wisdom is that Brass tanks, chromed exhausts and driveshaft tubes, and flat magnetos arrived in 1946 with the D and C models.

First job should be check cylinder for cracks, then play with tank.

It has a standard SD gearbox not the + one as illustrated in Charlesp recent post.

Coolie hat magnetos were fitted to the very early D's & C's.

All the SD's that were supplied to the Dutch military post war, were supplied with the non coolie hat magnetos, I belive that the military were not interested in an outboard that there were no ignition spares for, so they changed the magneto for one that was in current production & was cheaper.

I've already had a close look at the water jacket. Seems ok, but obviously it needs removing, cleaning up and a closer examination. I've got a spare short water jacket example though. I've also got a spare coolie hat magneto.

What evidence is there to show some SDs left the factory with flat magnetos fitted?

Tank needs to soak to loosen some of the sludge inside. Yuk.

A couple more pics:

My SD 12168 has a flat hat mag cover, steel tank with chrome bayonet cap, brass tiller handle and that nice skeletal bracket

Looks like we have two nearly identical engines Xtaffy, apart from mine having the earlier throttle lever. Charles SP has a similar one also, so it could be that these flat magnetos are original. Difficult to prove either way though.

I've seen a "D" model locally that has the same flat magneto. I suspect Charles UK is right in that the ministry specified the new magneto when it became available. I think it would be fair to say that there is evidence that later SDs circa 1945-46 were thus fitted with the flat top magneto. From when is difficult to say. I have SD9965 which is probably 1945 which is fitted with a coolie hat

Does your SD have the ministry stamp on the skeg?

Of note is the fact that SDs with a flat magneto have a very early one, with no flange around the baseplate and the captive bolt contact breakers.

Food for thought..

What I was trying to say Oyster is that when Seagull received their order for the 10,000 SD's from the ministry of supply they would have sent an order for SD magnetos to Villiers for 10,000 + maybe an additional 10% for spares, both orders probably were "paid for" by the Min of Supply, so no cost for Seagull.

It looks like the first of the post war outboards, C & D's had coolie hat ignitions, so that's Seagull selling off any freebees they had left in stock, when these ran out Seagull would be forced to buy Villiers current product i.e. the flat topped magneto.

It's obvious that Seagull produced many redesigned parts for the later C & D's so it's a reasonable supposition that all the Military surplus had yet to hit the market, so at some point after this, the Min of Supply started selling off their stocks of returned & unused SD's.

This is where firms like Slough Estates came into existance they were one of the biggest buyers of war surplus equipment, if you wanted a delivery lorry they had them but only in green. No doubt they bought SD's as well as they would be a very desirable item to coastal fishermen, & if they had a flakey ignition & no spares for the coolie hat the only possible repair was a new ignition from Seagull.

Hi oyster .
I have no marks on my skeg.

Cylinder is now off and seems in reasonable condition. A lot of rusty bits came out whilst flushing in both directions but it is now clear. I'll put some boiler cleaner in tomorrow.

Tank is now being painted, no need for any filler, just a good rub down to remove all the rust. These steel tanks seem very tough

This engine should be a fairly quick and easy rebuild, everything is there, just some elbow grease required

What's the plan with the gearbox?

Looking good, Flow in cylinder looks ok.
I always take the brass fitting out of the cylinder, it may let you get that last flake of rust out that will block the flow.

Don't dent the sink, they moan if you dent the sink

H-A

The whole bottom end is in excellent condition, so I shall only need to give it a good scrub up, whip the end cap off and change the oil. Not a lot else required.I think this is another engine with hardly any use. No wear in the bore at all and no carbon either. Can't believe my luck in getting this one

It's an SDP or an SD+ they are barge pushers & have a 4 : 1 gear box with a 13" prop.