Saving Old Seagulls

Hi Guys,

OK I plan to use a model 90 on my yacht as its sole power source next season. My question is, I know this model came with an optional alternator, what did this consist of? is it an easy retro fit and available? Any other options?

I am not too concerned about this ( I have a wind charger on the boat anyway and eat a lot of beans ) it is just that as I already have all the wiring set up for an alternator for my current motor if it were easy enough to set up it would be handy.

cheers

Hugz just bought one and I have asked him for some design features so I can replicate them if possible ..alternativelly will be experimenting with extra coils under the flywheel when I get my AD going I don think using a bike dynamo 24/7 on the flywheel is going to last ...I assume you want 12v ..well 14.4v to charge a battery ..you will be lucky if we can design something to make over 3 amps

Had thought of the bicycle dynamo trick but on the model 90 the flywheel is enclosed below the recoil starter so it would have to be the pukka thing or some other coil under the flywheel I think.

3A would be fine, I would only expect a trickle charge ( I think my current 10HP motor only puts out about 6A anyway so any more might take too much power away from propulsion - I don't have tons to spare! )

I have to give John a ring sometime soon for some other bits so I will ask him re availability of the real deal but I have a feeling I might have to replace the flywheel cowling or something to allow the connector to be fitted.

Agree with you re Noosa! nice part of the world!

They were options on any electronic ignition Seagulls for about £100. Sadly all gone now. the QB had to have a carrier made to be able to fit one.

Very early MkI Villiers had an extra coil to 6 v AC! only ever seen one!

I would go for a Solar panel these days, they work when you are not motoring too!

John
SOS

Waggles wrote: I have a feeling I might have to replace the flywheel cowling or something to allow the connector to be fitted.

The alternator ACC 40 000 potted coils sit above the flywheel and are secured to the inside upper surface of the flywheel housing by nuts onto three studs. (If you remove the recoil starter you can see the tops of the studs finishing flush with the top of the flywheel housing).

The cabling is dressed vertically downward in an existing channel cast in the tank wall side and exits level with the ignition plate. There should be no need for a replacement housing.

Having said that the parts list picture of flywheel housing IGN 03 006 shows a hole in the side of the flywheel housing but is silent on there being any need to have a different housing if the alternator coils are fitted. Mine has the channel and I'm pretty sure it never had the alternator fitted.

Design info to enable reverse engineering seems a little scant. I 'm sure there is a thread on this in the archives. I also thought I had some pictures of a coil set but can't find them at the moment. The QB handbook lists the alternator, if it is the same, as being "12V 50 watt 5A with built in rectifier." Make of that spec what you will!

There is no mention of any alternator control electronics......however the item as an after-market kit supposedly came with six feet of cable. No mention if the supplied cable is terminated in connectors, croc clips or bare wire. Bare wire would dress through both the "hole" or "channel" housing variants.

Peter

Came as a kit for retro fitting, 2 or 4 amp output via daft plug and socket that you could unplug, rotate and replug to alter output.

As the affair was not at all waterproof they all rotted in salt air and the easy way to remove and throw plug away.

Then take the three ouput wires and connect the 2 positives together. You now have 2 wires pos and neg. You now have 4 amp output, (whoever only ever wanted 2??) Use a garden pond waterproof connector for the 2 resultant wires and you have a 4 amp rectified DC output.

They sometimes turn up in wrecked Seagulls... they were made by Lucas and also fitted into other applications, maybe motorcycles.

Regards,
John

As fitted on the underside of the flywheel cover of an EFNR 1981.

Now all I need is a battery and a 12v blower on the carby inlet and I have a supercharged gull. Move aside I'm coming thru!!

Tho it would probably be better on my E102.

Thanks for the info guys, thats quite a find there Hugz! I LOVE the rotating plug idea, who needs a charge controller? just wait until the battery has charged then turn plug to reduce output! thats so ..... Seagull!

Looking at it it does look very similar to an alternator on a Triumph Bonneville or similar, have a feeling they had external control electronics too though ( if only they had thought of a rotating plug )

OK as I said it was just an idea as I already had the wiring in place on the boat, not something I actually NEED. I will leave the wiring in situ and if I ever find an alternator I will think of fitting it, until then the Rutland is already doing a sterling job anyway, ( with the wind we have had this year I could have run my home with it I think ) if I add a couple of solar panels to cover those times the wind drops I will be more than covered.

perhaps you all realized but it looks like it came with its own magnet and is therefore not using the flywheel magnets . Mayhave three coils and gives varying output dependent on being connected star or delta , or using half or full wave rectification to vary the output ...also some diodes to turn the ac into dc ...but as these will be small could be in the resin stator.

finding a suitable magnet is the problem as we need poles on the perimeter .....

all circular magnets with holes in the middle to be tested by seagull owners for suitablity !!!

The only real way to find out whats inside the stator is to get it x rayed by a vet but you still have the problem of the magnet if you want to duplicate one ...

Yes I had noticed it would be using its own magnet, maybe the best approach would be to find a whole unit from another application. I checked up on the Triumph Bonneville, as it is more years than I care to remember since I had one I was a little out, the coils are mounted with 6 bolts not 3 ( perhaps you could make do with 3? ) anyway I wouldn't be surprised if the output from such a beast would not even be rectified and require more external electronics. In case anyone can be more bothered than me the triumph parts can be found at http://triumphbonneville.com/shopsite_s ... /elec.html

Not sure how you would mount the rotor, as standard it used a key and am not sure of dimensions obviously but as you can see it is at least similar and gives hope there may be others more suited if anyone can be bothered to troll through motorcycle spares.

clearly you could make this fit BUT is it worth all the time on the lathe and will it look right when its finished?
The electronics is no problem ..about 5 quids worth of bits will build a regulator ...send me a pm with e mail addess if you want diagram etc in the future or anyone else

Looking to fit another coil under the flywheel myself or dumping the magneto and converting to CDI ..home made ...on my AD if the ignition does not work very well....it would be easy then to have a 300v coil for the CDI and 12v for the charge ....

clearly you could make this fit BUT is it worth all the time on the lathe and will it look right when its finished?
The electronics is no problem ..about 5 quids worth of bits will build a regulator ...send me a pm with e mail addess if you want diagram etc in the future or anyone else

Looking to fit another coil under the flywheel myself or dumping the magneto and converting to CDI ..home made ...on my AD if the ignition does not work very well....it would be easy then to have a 300v coil for the CDI and 12v for the charge ....

The other Charles has one.

tonimarr@aol.com