Saving Old Seagulls

I hasten to add that my knowledge of forties is at best sketchy. Now looking at the web on Adrians motor it appears to be welded in place or at least reinforced/repaired with weld. I'm assuming the web in later crankcases was cast? Any photos please. We need a forensic department.

Excellent point re carrying and distorting cranckcase Jeremy though I think carrying these motors using the tiller would be tantamount to disaster on all seagulls.

Imagine the difficulty in transporting the extended stub tiller motor, it would be like a Seagull on viagra.

I have to wonder why Seagull decided to have a fixed tiller where previous models were tilting. I'm assuming all Marstons were tilting?

Am I correct that the early Anzani Pilot had a similar fixed tiller? Bruce? This may have influenced the BS design team. When was the first pilot manufactured? Found a 1950 one in Finland (near the Keravanjoki river so a probably a nice fresh water one) http://www.nettivene.com/en/moottori/muu-merkki/523635 I'm getting sidetracked!

What a pretty river. Shame about the colour https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/01 ... 804f?hl=en

Looked at the extra fin again and have posted a new photo below I am 100% sure that this is cast not welded see photo

AJ

Yep, looks cast to me now. What about under it?

Hugz wrote:Yep, looks cast to me now. What about under it?

Under what?

Not seen an Anzani with a fixed tiller, I have seen them with add on tillers and the last one had what I would call a P handle, I have come across a Lookalike Anzani pilot, your ones looks a little later.
I think its just a trick of the light Hugz, but I can see what you mean, The crank looks right for a tilt tiller, if it was or wasn't before, who knows .

Adrian Dale wrote:

Hugz wrote:Yep, looks cast to me now. What about under it?

Under what?

The stub holder, as Keith says probably trick of light.

yes got you now it is the light bouncing off there is no weld.

I'll box it back up tomorrow and maybe take it for a spin around the bay.... gota do the Bas first though.

AJ

The dreaded BAS, mines not due until May 12.

This extra web is CAST.
It was introduced round about this time:-
FV1867T hasn't got it
FV2682 hasn't
FV2821 has got it
FV3048 hasn't
FV3364 has
FV3481 appears from a photo to have it, but I cannot be certain - perhaps Garry could comment.
FV5141 has it and I guess all subsequent one have it.

I do not think that there is any evidence that BS produced a standard extended stub tiller. All the extended ones that I have seen look home made and of various lengths. I think, Hugz, following your Viagra comment, that it is wishful thinking (probably for most of us!) that increased length was a possible standard.
Back to Seagull - certainly steering a small dinghy with a 5" one is a little awkward. Most people would temporary extend it by inserting a stick/rod into the stub tiller.
Yes, carrying it by the stub tiller is very easy and comfortable and it hasn't caused a problem yet! The FV is a very light engine - probably the lightest apart from the marginally lighter earlier F.

Adrian, what is the small (1.5"ish long) cylinder or sleeve in your photos? Is it the broken end of the stub or is it part of the 'new' tiller?

Jeremy

FVP 5750 doesn't have the web

Hugz,
I wrote:-
FV5141 has it and I guess all subsequent one have it.

Thats the great thing about guessing - I am usually wrong!

A bit of a puzzle. I could put forward various scenarios (more guesses!), but I really haven't a clue. Any ideas?

Jeremy

Jeremy the small plug is a solid machined aluminium insert with a 1/16" collar at one end for the brass tiller to butt against. It is there so that the bracket clamp can squeezes the brass of the tiller firmly. It is also drilled and countersank to allow a screw to be inserted, giving positive location. It has been machined from a piece of aluminium stock and is most definitely not part of a broken crank case. The stub cast onto the crankcase does not have the collar.

I believe if you expand the photo you will see all the details Jeremy.

Clearly BS were using both fin and fin less crankcases at the same time perhaps the difference coming from two different pattern makers moulds. Surly if there was a advantage of one over the other then the poorer design would have been dropped and we would see a defying date/serial number around which the change became permanent. Your list does not indicate this.

AJ

This motor is basically a tiller version now, was it original, don't know, is the plug that's still in the end of the tiller from the original crank case, hard to tell.
But it looks the same as others I have seen and this one I pull out of the shed, being a tilt tiller version.

Yes Keith that crankcase half is identical to FV 3364, right down to the machining marks

AJ

FV 1580 does not have the fin. Note how the brass tube pushes right up to the crankcase with no lip. When you look at the plug you can see a clearly machined flange. That lip means that the plug could not have been machined from a broken crankcase stub.

AJ