Seagull oil in water problem

[atoyot]

...This spring I will also try the white spirit idea,and see if the oil residue disperses quicker.
I will trial both in the same motor,and let you know the results.....

Ray,

Just one thing I should pass along as well re: white spirit (UK) or camp stove fuel (US) in the Seagull - This stuff seems to dry out the cork in the fuel shutoff something fierce. I left a pint or so in the tank with a recently rebuilt valve, and it dribbled out in under a week with a sloppy valve left behind. Exposure to hot water fixed the cork but, clearly, the materials don't seem to like each other.

What ended up happening is I've settled for a 50/50 mix of regular motor fuel and white gas for my last-of-the-season sea trials. That mix stores just fine in the tank, no problems yet, nice tight shutoff seal. Perhaps in the spring I'll cut back to 1/3 standard fuel & 2/3 white, see how it stores in the tank. Been using a 20:1 mix with biolube ('Clear Oceans' @ West Marine).

-ted

[Charles uk]

Tell me are you using the white spirit as a replacement for the two-stroke lubricant or as a medium to enable a vegitable oil to dissolve in the white spirit/petrol mix?

[Horsley-Anarak]

"White Spirit" in the UK is a paint thinning and brush cleaning liquid.

I realise that Coleman fuel a highly refined, higher fraction petrol derivative which is available in camping shops.

This is "not" the same as White Sprit that is readily available in all DIY stores.

White spirit in the UK is nearer Paraffin than petrol.

Would you put paraffin in your outboard?

Just a note of caution.

As for Coleman fuel, that could prove to be far better than standard petrol.

I have a number of Colman camping stoves that are very efficient, with a noticeably
greater heat output using Coleman fuel rather than Petrol.

But it is very expensive.

Could I stretch to buying it for racing.

H-A

[Charles uk]

Kingfishers were produced by British Seagull for use with Kerosene fuel, with some fancy carb arrangement to permit this.

I have studied practices in racing 2 strokes for about 10 years & have read a great amount about sexy fuels, I've heard of methanol, nitro methane, benzene, acetone in fact all sorts of expensive magic ingredients, but never a mention of Coleman camping stove fuel, must be top secret.

[Horsley-Anarak]

My Coleman Multifuel stove can also run on paraffin, but it goes much better on Coleman fuel.

8500 BTU, boils a litre of water in under three minutes.

H-A

[atoyot]

Tell me are you using the white spirit as a replacement for the two-stroke lubricant or as a medium to enable a vegitable oil to dissolve in the white spirit/petrol mix?

Charles, I was just trying to see if I could get away from using regular automotive type petrol in general. The white fuel, when burned in my military-grade (VietNam era?) camp lantern that takes either camp fuel or automotive unleaded, most certainly burns cleaner. I still add lubricant at about 20:1 for my modified Villers or the Bing.

I tried the clear stuff neat at first and found that the shutoff valve doesn't appreciate the stuff much. And so, I tried using the white or camp fuel to dilute the amount of regular petrol used. Here in the colonies, a gallon of white gas sold as camp or lantern fuel runs about twice to three times [EDIT - 3 to 4X] the equivalent price of motor fuel for the auto. For as little as I use the outboard in a season (reletive to the sailing part), the price isn't really a factor so much.

ADDED - if White Spirit = Kerosene or even paint thinner in the UK, then this is not what I'm messing with. Definitely it's the camp fuel stuff, probably around 50 octane by some accounts. Wikipedia has an interesting history written up for this decendant of "casing gas".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casing_head_gas

[RAY SWANN]

OK.
Bearing in mind the warning about 50/50 petrol white spirit mix damaging the tap cork,
I have done a small trial.
As its below freezing I tried to be clever and used a Tanaka tob 2.5hp (sears game fisher) motor
as it is air cooled,and will run fine out of water.
This was a huge mistake, when the engine was started with the petrol(gasoline),white spirit and oil mix it was
very reluctant to "pick up" on opening the throttle.
The carb fitted to this engine is a side draught OMC type,so the high speed mixture is not adjustable.
It seems that only a Seagull motor should have been used for the testing due to,
Cooler cylinder temperature as water cooled.
Mixture strength is adjustable via the carb needle.
When we get out of this cold spell I will try again with a Seagull motor.
Ray

[Rangeley Guide Boat]

A bit on fuels and their names around the world - http://fuel.papo-art.com/

From an old camp stove addiction I've learned that Coleman fuel/ "white gas" is also sold in the UK under the name "panel wipe" - a body shop solvent/ degreaser.

Thanks for this thread, this is a topic which has been bothering my conscience a bit, I'm glad to have some options!

[Collector Inspector]

I think this is getting out of hand, mind you very interesting thorts along the way...........except Chuck (UK) wanting to vent with Pooh! Dear Me, Lord Gratious. What a sad state to be in.............

If an Old Dear was designed for, what we call Petrol down here, and some lubricant should be added to said......Why go Dolly Parton and blow everything out of proportion?

I love this stuffing about!

Try water (Cracking the H out of the two Os)

From the flywheel, make closed loop etc.

B

[atoyot]

OK.
Bearing in mind the warning about 50/50 petrol white spirit mix damaging the tap cork..

One correction please, Ray. It was the straight camp fuel/naptha/whatever, that disagreed with the cork seal. The 50/50 mix has been in both my Seagulls for a month to no adverse effect. The cork is OK with the mixed stuff.

I have a Cruise n' Carry, very similar to the Tanaka of the same period, and it's compression is quite high. It seems to appreciate normal motor fuel (and it absolutely Loves aircraft fuel, 100LL). The one time I put camp stove fuel in it, i thought it was going to shake itself to bits.

-ted

[atoyot]

..Thanks for this thread, this is a topic which has been bothering my conscience a bit, I'm glad to have some options!

Yo, Rangely G.B - "Location: Virginia, USA" Where in Virginia? Born in Danville, here. Does a membership of two comprise a "club"? The Old Dominion Seagull Engine Ass'n has a certain ring to it......

----------------------------------------------

As to Collector's note about using what the things were made for, I propose that this is exactly what we're in fact doing. Regular motor fuel of the period when these things were designed, consisted of materials and distillates much like what I'm playing with at home from the camping supply closet. And lots of the oils were vegable based (i.e. castor oil), not petroleum-based & so there again, we're reverting back to the original as it was intended.


Peace,

Ted

[RAY SWANN]

Well some interesting reading,but it looks like the guys from USA/Canada/Australia are
well ahead on "Ill pour some of that in my seagull and see what happens"
As a result of all this testing of various fuel mixes did any of them reduce the exhaust
residue in still water ?
Enjoyed reading the lead left by Rangeley guide boat.
Certainly know a lot more than I did before I posted this question.
Thank you everyone.
PS, am I too old to be a geek.
Ray.

[Rangeley Guide Boat]

I don't know if you followed the link for the Coleman fuel, but the Coleman tech guy indicated that their product was derived from the original "white gas", which was widely used to fuel...wait for it... outboards.
I probably won't splash my Seagull until the early spring, but once I get it sorted out I'll give these products a try. Coleman fuel is remarkably stable and clean - so if the Gull will run ok on it, I'm for it. Their MSDS also indicates it is fully biodegradable, good info for the water gawkers.

Hey Tod! I'm currently living in Vienna (DC suburb) but my real home and heart are in the Shenandoah Valley - I have a home in Browntown, Va. adjacent to Shenandoah National Park. I hereby call the first meeting of the Old Dominion Seagull Association and Social Club to order - and appoint you President.

My motor's a '65 40 plus longshaft - SJPL779F5 - given to me by the original owner, who purchased it new at the Washington (DC) Marina, when Seagulls were distributed here by an outfit in Wilkes-Barre, PA. It's in pretty nice shape and was well looked after - Has hot spark and should run nicely after the fuel system's cleaned up. It still has remnants of the spar varnish they applied, per the owner's manual. I also got a nice set of manuals, parts books, and some ad cards/flyers. I've been working on a friend's sailboat down at Solomon's Island, MD, and the local antique/junk shop has what looks to be a Century out on the porch. So, I may end up being a serial Seaguller... They're addictive!

[atoyot]

...I've been working on a friend's sailboat down at Solomon's Island, MD, and the local antique/junk shop has what looks to be a Century out on the porch. So, I may end up being a serial Seaguller... They're addictive!

That they are!! Most certainly. Well, feel free to PM me and discuss your friend's boat down @ Solomon's or anything else Virginian. And welcome aboard. There's just a mess of really good information on this BBS. One thing you might do is see if John the site owner has any more tool kits available. Well worth the price.

You'll like the Century, on whatever fuel by the way. Grab it while you can, before some idiot makes a restaurant wall decoration out of it. Here's one in action - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN9xdL-6wqw That Wiki on casing head gas just amazes me. That is, how a waste product became the fore-runner of fuel for the second industrial revolution of sorts. For good or evil. One thing you're going to find out is that these things really like oil. Sure, modify the carb to run on 25:1 if you like, though I'm still getting better running and easier starting by mixing 16:1 or 20:1 instead of thinning it all the way out. It's nice to have options, though.

Read the rest of the board, every post if you can. It's time well spent.


-Ted