forty water circulation no 2

[Grumpy]

I wrote a post on the 31 jan boasting about the water flow through my newly acquired efpc forty plus
Now the gods have come back to haunt me.
3 days ago I tank tested my roughest seagull, a truly heavy used and abused fp forty plus which I purchased maybe 5 years
I had it running well and using a syphon it circulated water to a satisfactory level.
Then the other day it made a funny noise down below and stopped circulating water.
I did checks like passing water through in reverse, and suspecting impellor problems decided to operate.
Perhaps a bad decision . Every nut and bolt down below is utterly knackered or has been replaced at some stage by some mechanic from hell.
I tried all ways to open the lower leg , gearbox etc and finally got there but not without doing irreparable damage.
I have some spare forty bottom driveshafts and gearbox bits etc so I wasn't too worried.
Then it got real messy. I am not a mechanic and then my gas torch went kaput.
The impellor fell out in 4 pieces . I had an old ls forty driveshaft and part gearbox etc with the round inlet holes and attached aluminium impellor and some other bits to make up another gearbox with a 35/10 gearing. This old impellor has 4 fins attached and all info says that it should be ok.
Everything I picked up seemed to have a problem which I finally overcame this afternoon and using my homemade gaskets I reassembled the old girl . Not something I would sell but a very unique bottom ended forty which , if I can get going I will definitely use.
Have not sealed up anything as I wanted to see the water flow first but ensured it was all tight etc.
Without a prop I fired her up in the test tank, she does go well, but still no water. The gearbox appears to run v/well
Earlier I had blown through the brass water pipe and it appeared to be all clear through the block
So I'm stumped.
My only area I have doubts about is where does the bottom of the water circulation brass tube in the exhaust go to.
Is it in the small hole hole leading through to the impellor or as in the cut away shown in one of the official sites ,hanging loose.
Interestingly there is a comment that there is a fault showing in this picture but does not specify what it is.
Water and air , by hose or lungs go through the head so I do not think the problem is there
any advice appreciated. I think I may have cleaned the head out years ago anyway.
And , my best gulls are not going to be treated like this and 2 are now banned from salt water.

.

[Hugz]

Is the rotor the correct way around? They can go either way and the right way (to me) looks wrong.

I wonder if you put a drill on the flywheel nut and spun backwards whether it would push water out.

Bit crazy...hey!

[Grumpy]

Good idea which I'll look at tomorrow in daylight.
Only doubt here is that the impellor was already on the driveshaft which I have used to reassemble.
That means it has had to be wrongly installed and used on the long deceased LS.
Looked really old and battered too and stuck on . Looks like it has done great long time service.
Still a possibility. Thanks.
Any advice about the brass tube?






I

[Hugz]

I thought that might be the case so we can rule that one out. Ah... you do say attached impeller

[Grumpy]

Yes. It looks well stuck on . Plus it had a hole right through the shaft and I added a brass split pin to play safe.
Got to get up soon, have my porridge , no salt or sugar, then i'll get down to have another look.
Seagulls, I have another 7 all going and I'm upset this particular unattractive one is not.
Gotta get it all into proportion. grasp reality and realise the world is not ending.
Whoever invented these things should be held accountable.

[BroadReach]

The brass tube needs to be located in the small hole on the top of the impellor housing not hanging free in the exhaust.

The cutaway engine you have seen on the main site is wrong!

Does that make sense?

[Grumpy]

Yes it does make sense .
So I appear to have most areas covered leaving me to take the head off and that is despite being able to flush water in reverse down the block and able to blow air manually up through the block via the brass tube..
If the water ways are clear where do I go then.

[Hugz]

I'm an electrician so I'm looking at fault finding in that capacity. If I lose power to an appliance I first look for a simple fix which you have already done. I then go to the half way mark and check there which will tell me which direction to check next ie upline downline. In your case I would drop the leg and reinstall 180 back onto motor and then start in water. It will be noisy and your wiff will flee as well as neighbours, cats, dogs and all manner of vermin. If you have water coming outa da pipe, rotor ok if not prob downstairs....

[Hugz]

If you want a quieter approach. Leave motor off and grind the head of a bolt to fit into the.square driveshaft and use a drill to rotate:.....

[headdownarseup]

What exactly have you done to the gearbox? Have you seperated the pumphousing from the gearcase? If yes, is it possible that the seal between the 2 components isn't good enough? It might just be sucking exhaust gasses up the water delivery pipe? Worth double checking this.

Impellers on older 40's (as is this particular gearbox with holes for water inlets) MUST be fitted with the round section facing upwards towards the crankcase. Same with 102cc motors too, same way around. Round facing UP.
These older (aluminium or bronze) impellers often have a slit pin attaching them to the square drive shaft. Over the years, rust gets a hold and starts to swell the shaft and (if you're unlucky) will split the impeller into bits and your drive shaft will become very weak and snap in half. Same thing can happen with the black plastic impellers, but ALWAYS ALWAYS the round section to the impeller gets fitted facing towards the crankcase. (otherwise it's going backwards does that make sense). Also, is it the correct impeller for the motor? 40's are slightly smaller diameter than the bigger century/102 types.
The water delivery pipe needs to be located into the small hole inside the exhaust outlet of the pumphousing. Tricky if you're doing this singlehanded!

If all else fails and the motor still doesn't pump any water, time to remove the head and start scraping and probing the waterways.

You've got this.
Get stuck in

We like pics too.

Jon

[Grumpy]

Great info and advice by all and I'm starting to feel very confident of a positive outcome.
I;ve taken the head off, bottom leg gearbox etc and.,
1 only minor gunk n block , passed water cleaning through open block down brass tube and out in pumphousing . all ok there.
2 aluminium impeller is the correct size is on correct and in what seems to me to be in reasonable condition.
3 fully aware now to keep brass tube in special slot inside exhaust Had run it yesterday with the brass tube in then out of the slot to cover all bases.
4 have to wait for my new gas torch before I can reassemble head, hopefully by weekend. annealing.
5 Will ensure all gasket are correctly installed ensuring good seals.
6 If no luck will be trying that trick of running in tank with exhaust off but what happens to my filthy underwear and who will respond to my repeated appeals for food and drink at strange hours. If it is guaranteed that the missus shoots off I may need to reject that idea.
Nearly 50 of training down the gurgler.
7 the gearbox. Have replaced the original fp box with most parts from a derelict LS incl shaft and gearing and other than some minor variations it seems to work .
Its also 35/10 as is the FP. I thought it would be different.This FP box had been jammed up very tight with foreign bolts and screws and eventually had to be drilled out.Bolt extractors did not work. The LS has a minor fault but I'm sure it will ok.
Perhaps some of you more professional types could have done far better but it was beyond my skill and especially my patience.
As in the photos this LS gearbox has differences like no cupping on the prop side .
Means of course less protection from weeds or other materials I suppose but I cant see why it cannot do the job.
My only doubt, and it does seem to run well when running is there is a space between the brass pinned washer on the gearbox driveshaft and the outer facing of the gearbox itself. Some variation here from the FP, either shaft length or gear box dimensions.
Either way I have place 2 washers in the space but there is still some movement maybe too much. I don't do micrometers so is there any way I can judge what is a reasonable gap.?
Hope I covered it all , may be not , but thanks and if anything screams out to you in my photos please let me know.

[Grumpy]

heres my missing photos.

[Grumpy]

I.m starting to get the hang about sending photos .H

eres a few more

[Mutineer]

THis an unattractive seagull??
Mine all look like that or worse!!

[Grumpy]

Might look ok in the photos but I'm coming to realise 2 things.
The photos show it looking better than it really is. Also in our summer down here the light does seem s touch bright perhaps all to do with a decreased ozone layer.
So while this gull is looking ok I and anyone around me is getting frazzled up into cancerous skin blobs.
And that really annoys me as I have been desperately changing all my gulls onto 11/1 oil fuel mixtures recently in a sad effort to put off this climate change thing which I never signed up to anyway. I was hoping to reach 120 but seems that is going to be beyond me now.
Plus I fully realise now that my photos should be of a better quality and concentrated hard on the matters discussed.
Hope also to get my new gas torch today , reassemble the gull properly and carefully and watch it roar in the test tank and see the water power through.
Thank again to all .