Cut out and will not start.
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
Cut out and will not start.
Hi, any help much appreciated. I've had Seagull for about six years with no problems. Returning from trip on river, engine been running for approx 15 minutes, then it just cut-out, like fuel starvation and will not start. I have Fuel and spark. I've stripped carb and cleaned jet but it will not even give a splutter. I tried "easy start" and did get a sort of back fire!. Any ideas please.
Yes, still have plenty compresion, fuel is clean in carb bowl, and spills out when prime pump used, no inline fuel filter. I did wonder if the timing had moved, but checked after reading on this site that the screw fits into a groove, so there is no adjustment. I am stumped! as I said it was running fine with water coolant working and just died.
Cheers Tony.
Cheers Tony.
Check for rope round the prop
Seriously you don't say what model of seagull and carb you have. I have a 40+ with villiers carb and have just recently had starting problems and sudden power losses and MIGHT have traced the problem to the carb ( haven't been able to test it yet ) but in case it might be of help to you as symptoms were similar heres what I found.
In the carb the main jet and holder are held in place with a screw through the side of the carb body, I found that although said screw was tight the main jet could be moved up and down easily by several mm. My theory is that firstly as the jet carrier has a fibre washer under it it must need to seal down and not move, if the seal is broken then the venturi affect will not be pulling the fuel just up the jet like it should, also moving the main jet up and down ( by vibration presumably ) will alter the mixture a fair bit.
There didn't seem to be any wear in the screw locating groove so I am not sure how my carb ended up this way, but I have cured it with a bit of solder to build the groove up a bit.
If you want to test if this is the problem would suggest you take float bowl off and pull jet down so you know it is seated then carefully reassemble and see if problem is altered.
Only other thing I can think of is possibly a spark plug failing under pressure.
Hope this helps.

In the carb the main jet and holder are held in place with a screw through the side of the carb body, I found that although said screw was tight the main jet could be moved up and down easily by several mm. My theory is that firstly as the jet carrier has a fibre washer under it it must need to seal down and not move, if the seal is broken then the venturi affect will not be pulling the fuel just up the jet like it should, also moving the main jet up and down ( by vibration presumably ) will alter the mixture a fair bit.
There didn't seem to be any wear in the screw locating groove so I am not sure how my carb ended up this way, but I have cured it with a bit of solder to build the groove up a bit.
If you want to test if this is the problem would suggest you take float bowl off and pull jet down so you know it is seated then carefully reassemble and see if problem is altered.
Only other thing I can think of is possibly a spark plug failing under pressure.
Hope this helps.
Sorry ! It is 40+ with villiers, same as yours.
Unfortunately not same problem. The main jet is firm with no movement.
I have just replaced fuel with new (even though it was running on existing). Still nothing, not even a cough. I've not heard of the problem you mention about spark plug not working under pressure!! I shall invest in new spark plug and let you know.
Cheers Tony.
Unfortunately not same problem. The main jet is firm with no movement.
I have just replaced fuel with new (even though it was running on existing). Still nothing, not even a cough. I've not heard of the problem you mention about spark plug not working under pressure!! I shall invest in new spark plug and let you know.
Cheers Tony.
If the ignition is good you should at least get a brief attempt to run after flooding the carb or with Easy Start (don't over use that stuff... no oil .... better to squirt some two stoke mix into the carb air intake)
Although I would not totally discount the fuel/carb possibility I would start by checking the ignition side thoroughly. You put the carb jet back correctly with the grub screw in the slot not the round hole?
You can get a spark with the plug out but not under compression. You need to see a really good spark.
Check the points and if its a Villiers system inspect the coil and suspect the condenser. Check the HT lead and change the plug (You carry a spare don't you?)
The only time mine (Featherweight) cut out while running it was the Ht lead falling off the plug!
Although I would not totally discount the fuel/carb possibility I would start by checking the ignition side thoroughly. You put the carb jet back correctly with the grub screw in the slot not the round hole?
You can get a spark with the plug out but not under compression. You need to see a really good spark.
Check the points and if its a Villiers system inspect the coil and suspect the condenser. Check the HT lead and change the plug (You carry a spare don't you?)
The only time mine (Featherweight) cut out while running it was the Ht lead falling off the plug!
As a matter of interest I managed to test mine at weekend and all seems OK now.
Anyway, back to yours, I assume you checked the carb jet was not blocked? Am inclined to agree with Vic tho, it does sound more electrical if there is no attempt to start at all so fingers crossed the plug does it. Would also consider changing the HT lead too if its a few years old.
Anyway, back to yours, I assume you checked the carb jet was not blocked? Am inclined to agree with Vic tho, it does sound more electrical if there is no attempt to start at all so fingers crossed the plug does it. Would also consider changing the HT lead too if its a few years old.
I've replaced HT lead and plug, checked the points and have spark. It still wont start. Allthough when I removed carb and poured petrol mix straight into engine it actually fired and spluttered (hooray). So now I'm thinking that the piston is not drawing fuel mix in! is this possible? as I have excellent compression at plug end. and I've cleaned carb jet and am happy with carb.
Tony.
Tony.
I'm with Mark, sounds like the crankcase has a leak to me. If compression is ok at spark plug then it is unlikely to be the head gasket I'd have thought but the base gasket and crankcase seal must be suspect.
Check you don't have any loose mating nuts / bolts, if you have it may indicate which area needs attention and tightening them MIGHT improve matters enough to start it and prove the point. You will still need to redo whatever seal is leaking properly though IMHO.
Check you don't have any loose mating nuts / bolts, if you have it may indicate which area needs attention and tightening them MIGHT improve matters enough to start it and prove the point. You will still need to redo whatever seal is leaking properly though IMHO.
never had a seagull blow a head gasket, they don't have enough compression, never done a crank seal or gasket but i suppose if my oldest one is 66 years old and still running perfect it must be due.
If a 2 stroke just dies it is usually the plug, dirty carbies usually just make them run erratic. I have had a plug that has not fouled but will only fire and stop, on replacing it it was fine.
the plug I have in my old sn1 has been there now for a year which is unusual for them to last so long.
I am not trying to be smart but if you want to use these old motors you should have a basic understanding of them, they are simple to sort out on the water, I don't carry a computer to sort out problems out there.
These sites are excellent for getting this knowledge so it can be used for safety.
I do a lot of long runs with my seagulls the longest being 12 hours in very bad weather conditions only stopping to refuel pushing a 14' catboat. It was that trip where I had spark at the plug but it wouldn't run and I changed the plug and off I went.
If I know I have a long trip I always give the carbie a clean refill the gearbox and check all the nuts and bolts.
My sn1 which gets a lot of work on the back of my 12' lugger is a very reliable old motor, I make a point of keeping it that way with preventive maintenance.
That is what these sites are excellent for to give out the information but it can't be found through the computer when you are on your boat.
Some say by a more modern outboard, I have repaired many a small 2 stroke modern outboard with dirty fuel and plugs. I trust my seagulls at times with my life as they are extremely reliable and simple. But i make sure they stay that way.
I think seagull ownership and usage has increased since the internet has made this info available which is great.
Enough of my rambling, don't forget to carry spare plugs, prop springs, starter cord, epoxy putty because if your cork on the float disintegrates out there and you have fuel going everywhere you can take the spindle out of the tap and block up the hole with epoxy putty, I did 5 hours running with that temp repair.
have fun with them and remember
they are the dirtiest smelliest noisiest outboard on the planet and are the only motor capable of converting fuel straight into smoke.
wouldn't swap mine for anything
If a 2 stroke just dies it is usually the plug, dirty carbies usually just make them run erratic. I have had a plug that has not fouled but will only fire and stop, on replacing it it was fine.
the plug I have in my old sn1 has been there now for a year which is unusual for them to last so long.
I am not trying to be smart but if you want to use these old motors you should have a basic understanding of them, they are simple to sort out on the water, I don't carry a computer to sort out problems out there.
These sites are excellent for getting this knowledge so it can be used for safety.
I do a lot of long runs with my seagulls the longest being 12 hours in very bad weather conditions only stopping to refuel pushing a 14' catboat. It was that trip where I had spark at the plug but it wouldn't run and I changed the plug and off I went.
If I know I have a long trip I always give the carbie a clean refill the gearbox and check all the nuts and bolts.
My sn1 which gets a lot of work on the back of my 12' lugger is a very reliable old motor, I make a point of keeping it that way with preventive maintenance.
That is what these sites are excellent for to give out the information but it can't be found through the computer when you are on your boat.
Some say by a more modern outboard, I have repaired many a small 2 stroke modern outboard with dirty fuel and plugs. I trust my seagulls at times with my life as they are extremely reliable and simple. But i make sure they stay that way.
I think seagull ownership and usage has increased since the internet has made this info available which is great.
Enough of my rambling, don't forget to carry spare plugs, prop springs, starter cord, epoxy putty because if your cork on the float disintegrates out there and you have fuel going everywhere you can take the spindle out of the tap and block up the hole with epoxy putty, I did 5 hours running with that temp repair.
have fun with them and remember
they are the dirtiest smelliest noisiest outboard on the planet and are the only motor capable of converting fuel straight into smoke.
wouldn't swap mine for anything