Mark IV timing

Larry1 · Post by **Larry1** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:33 am

Hi,
I have a Seagull 5.5. EFNRL294ef9l82c which I have installed a mark lV ignition on. I installed it with the piston at top dead center. The coil is installed on the same side as the throttle. I am getting spark but the motor will not start. I have fresh fuel and a D 16 champion plug gaped at .035. This motor ran find before the ignition quit. Do you have any suggestions ?

Larry 1

mfallon · Post by **mfallon** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:24 pm

Larry,

While I cannot claim nearly the expertise of others on this site, I believe your plug should be gapped to .25 (for a Mk4). Not sure that it would result in your engine not starting -- especially as you have spark -- but perhaps it is something to look at.

I also know that every time I've had any issues, it seems they are resolved by clearing the carb jet.

Good luck.

mfallon · Post by **mfallon** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:42 pm

make that .025, of course...

Charles UK · Post by **Charles UK** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:27 pm

Larry can you tell us exactly what you did during this upgrade.

So if I understand correctly you changed the white CDI for a brown one.
did you also change the flywheel?
because the brown cdi's are damaged by the white cdi flywheels.

To check your flywheel without removing, the Brown has a small groove on the outside diameter, the white does not.

If you have the wrong flywheel, remove it to see if you have damaged the CDI unit, you will see the nature of the problem when the flywheel is removed.if you want to PM me I will send you my phone number & I will talk you through the answers to your problem.

Charles Large

Larry1 · Post by **Larry1** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:58 pm

I am told by the company that I bought the MK4 from that the Mk3 had been discontinued and replaced by the Mk4. He also told me that the flywheel that came with the motor will work fine. What is different about a Mk4 fltwheel and would that keep the engine from starting ?

Larry
Cleveland, Ohio

niander · Post by **niander** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:30 pm

I have a Seagull 5.5. EFNRL294ef9l82c which I have installed a mark lV ignition on. I installed it with the piston at top dead center

didn't think it matterd where the piston was...just make sure the bolt goes in that little dimple

Larry1 · Post by **Larry1** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:57 pm

Bolt goes in the dimple ? I am not sure what you mean ?

Larry

Charles UK · Post by **Charles UK** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:00 pm

The difference between the 2 flywheels is that the Centre steel boss on the mk4 flywheel ( the one with the groove on the OD) has had further machining to prevent it from wearing the case away on the brown CDI unit & chewing into the coils, a none repairable situation.

If you machine down the centre boss on your mk3 flywheel to clear the brown CDI, your Seagull will not run as well as it did for some unknown reason, even though for all intents & purposes the flywheels appear to be identical.

So the moral of the story is don't mix up the flywheels.

White CDI = smooth OD flywheel.

Brown CDI = grooved OD flywheel

These CDI flywheels were the only flywheels ever used by Seagull that were made of Marzak (I hope I spelt that right) which is a fairly brittle aluminium type alloy, much used by the automotive industry, that does not take kindly to abuse.

On late model 5Rs Seagull, drilled & tapped 3 2Ba holes in the steel centre boss to permit the use of a puller tool as they did not take kindly to the big hammer removal techneek.

The CDI baseplate is held in position by the support pillars so the dimple serves no useful purpose.

I might be able to get your White CDI repaired when next I send a batch in.

chris · Post by **chris** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:31 am

At the base of the magneto is a grub screw that screws into a hole in the crank housing, there is no timing to adjust as it is fixed and makes no difference as to where the piston is when you put it on.
I have never bothered gapping a plug properly, I always put them in as they are from the packet. My outboard is 65years old and still has the original points.

Larry1 · Post by **Larry1** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:33 am

Chris
Thanks I will check that tomorrow. I never had such a problem before. The last time I did this I dropped the Mk 3 ignition in and away I went for the next 15 years.

L:arry

Larry1 · Post by **Larry1** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:38 am

When you guys are talking about a dimple and a grub screw your not talking about the key on the shaft are you ? Or the dimple of the spacer that fits into the top of the flywheel are you ?

Larry

Charles UK · Post by **Charles UK** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:51 am

Larry don't get confused, your cdi unit ignition is 2 generations later than the stuff everybody else is talking about.

Have you checked your CDI to see if it sustained any damage yet?

It should fire at about 23 degrees BTDC over 1500 revs, it will be slightly retarded on that at rope starting speeds for ease of starting.

niander · Post by **niander** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:04 pm

So Charles how do you set the timing on this new fangled thing then?
[If i ever get one]
photo please...
No dimple...More heresy!

Charles UK · Post by **Charles UK** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:52 pm

The timing is fixed by the way it is assembled, get yourself a late model motor with one & see.

I can't post any pictures as I can't load any drivers for the camera as I don't have any way of inputting the software.

Larry1 · Post by **Larry1** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:32 pm

I want to thank everyone for their help. Especially Charles UK and John at SOS. I have finally got my Seagull 5.5 back together and running as strong as ever. I put it back on the boat yesterday and took it out for a short spin. The only down side is that our season is just about over here. Today is going to be only in the mid 50 degrees (Fahrenheit). The boat is scheduled to come out in about 3 weeks, as you see Lake Erie freezes . The only other disappointment was dealing with the only USA supplier who gave me bad information. Again thanks to everyone. I am a happy camper to have my motor back.

Larry
Cleveland, Oh

P.S. I had the motor compression tested, 90 lbs. is that good ?