Gear engine oil - 1948 model

[loving_allsorts]

Good Evening folks.

I am a beginner to boats let alone Seaguls and have purchased an old Seagul (1948)
I followed your instructions on how to start it and it started, ran and pumped water on first pull. Lucky me

One question though. When I took the gear box plug out and had a butchers inside, I noticed the oil in there was more like a thick light grey grease sort of paste. When I took the propeller off I noticed that if I pushed the shaft into the box the seal became moist. I'm wondering if water is getting into the gear box.

After running I removed the plug but nothing poured out so if it is taking in water it is not a lot.

I've ordered off Ebay a bottle of EP140 (on its way) and my intention is to take the gear box apart and give it a damn good cleaning. Then putting in the new oil. But there seems little point in this if it is taking in water. Can you get new seals for this model? Which seal will be leaking? Is it the rubber washer type one behind the prop or is there another one past the bearing which I cannot see (I only took the prop off, and the packer type washer with the pin through the middle. I did not remove the shaft and I did not go into the gear box)

All help and advise will be very much appreciated.

Many thanks

Mark

[livewire]

Welcome Mark and to the Seagull world.

Don't panic it's perfect. Here's an extract from SOS FAQ page.


What Oil should be in my gearbox, it looks like coffee coloured sludge?

If your gearbox has a mixture of oil and water in a grey/brown slurry, that’s healthy!

The gearboxes on most seagulls have no proper oil seals, just a rubber grit seal. The oil will leak out and water get in. They are designed to run on an emulsion of oil and water. However, there comes a time when the water content is too high, so if it is inspected every 10 hours use and found watery, replace it with 140 grade oil. It’s a lot cheaper than replacing the gears.

[chris]

where do you live as there are cheaper places to buy the proper oil than ebay

[loving_allsorts]

thanks for the help,

I live in stafford (UK)
The bottle of oil was £5 to my door so not that expensive. My only concern is the label was rather hand printed so it may not be that oil in the bottle. Could somebody advise the cheapest place to get the correct oil to mix with the unleaded My engine I believe is 10:1 mix. Also how much oil should I put in the gear box should I want to top it up?

Many thanks

Mark

[Oyster 49]

Cheapest way is to buy a larger container of 140 grade. Last time I got some was 4 litres from Smith and Allan who will deliver at a very reasonable price.

Previous advice was spot on, getting the water in the oil is normal, but if the engine is left the water will seperate out. So for what it costs I would the change the oil regularly and always when the engine will be left standing.

[loving_allsorts]

Thanks for that,

can anybody answer how much oil I should be putting in? IS it right up to the cap or ould that be leaking out into the canal when it gets warm and the pressure builds up?

Cheers

Mark

[electrosys]

thanks for the help,

I live in stafford (UK)
The bottle of oil was £5 to my door so not that expensive. My only concern is the label was rather hand printed so it may not be that oil in the bottle. Could somebody advise the cheapest place to get the correct oil to mix with the unleaded My engine I believe is 10:1 mix. Also how much oil should I put in the gear box should I want to top it up?

Many thanks

Mark

Suggest you ask at the local Farmer's Cooperative store, as heavy oil is used in older agricultural machinery. I bought 5 litres for about £10-12 this way about 2 or 3 years ago. Probably more expensive now.

It may not be the correct procedure, but firstly I clean-off any muck from around the gearbox. Unscrew the plug and drain off the existing oil, unless you're just topping-up - in which case don't drain-off ...
Then place the engine with gearbox plug hole uppermost, over a clean drip-pan. Add some oil, then rotate the engine to a vertical position, still over the drip pan. If no oil emerges from the plug hole, repeat until a small blob tries to leave. That's it - so you can replace the plug. A tiny amount either over or under the desired level does no harm, so it ain't critical - but if you should seriously over-fill the box, simply let the excess drain out onto the drip pan, and save it for the next time you need to top-up the box.

[loving_allsorts]

Thanks for the info. I'll be doing that.

Something you wrote which confused me. You said drain out the oil? The oil will not drain out, it's like vaseline in there. grey THICK oil. It doesn't flow off. I wonder if it just needs topping up.

[electrosys]

Thanks for the info. I'll be doing that.

Something you wrote which confused me. You said drain out the oil? The oil will not drain out, it's like vaseline in there. grey THICK oil. It doesn't flow off. I wonder if it just needs topping up.

Hello Mark

Well - if we draw a parallel with custard, then runny custard would be too watery, custard that can be poured out of a jug would be about right, whereas if you could stand a spoon up in it, then it's too thick.
It really needs to be the consistency of treacle, or just a tad thinner. In use, water will get into the box which does thin it a little, but it really must be pourable in the first place.

It sounds as if your oil may have turned to grease then ? That's not good, as the bearings rely on some oil slopping into their grooves, and the gears need direct contact with the lube - but if the lube has turned to grease, a void will develop around the gear teeth and they will effectively be running dry.

My advice would be to get that stuff out by whatever means are available (including dismantling the box), and start with a 'clean sheet' as it were, with new oil. Oil isn't that cheap, but it's much cheaper than a new set of gears.

An alternative approach to avoid dismantling would be to pour some diesel or similar light oil into the box and swill it around (not all that easy with a big lump) and try to remove the 'grease' that way. But the problem here is that you will not be able to guarantee that all the 'grease' has been removed.

So it's a judgement call - but dismantle and clean out if you possibly can.

[Vic]

Before dismantling the gearbox try warming it.

Standing it in a bucket of hot water for a while might just thin the gloop that's in there enough to drain it.

If it does fill it with the cheapest car engine oil and give it a short run in a tank then drain again.

If all else fails I agree take the end cap off and clean it out.

[electrosys]

I think Vic's idea of using hot water is excellent, and I would even suggest taking this one stage further: if warming the box itself doesn't work, you could then try pouring boiling water directly into the gearbox - that might dislodge and float the stuff out.

[Charles uk]

Just gently heat it with a blowlamp while it's in the draining position you will only have to get it to as hot as you can touch, then remove the end cap to clean & inspect, take care with the crown wheel thrust washer.

[loving_allsorts]

Thanks all for being so helpful.

I think it would be a good lesson for me to take it apart and give it a good overhaul. Are there any gaskets I need to be wary of if I do this? Any spare parts I need to have ready?

Cheers guys

Mark