The Seagull is getting heathy

[gaffrig24]

I got the gull running pretty good now. She'll start up after 4 pulls when cold and keeps on running strong. I tank tested it this weekend and she seemed to run really good. I had a good flow of water and she turned water in both forward and reverse. I fixed the tank leak with solder. One of them sealed up just fine the other was a bit stubborn though and had to be resealed 3 times. I had water in the tank and it wouldn't leak then I washed the water out with fuel and shook the tank, pressure built up in the tank and she began to whistle like a kettle. Then it was back to cleaning the tank of fuel, removing the leaking solder, cleaning the area and soldering it back up again. I had to do this 3 times, but it's not leaking now. I haven't filed down the extra solder on that post yet though. The other side looks like it came from the factory. I polished a section of the tank and it sure does look good, but I still don't know if I should polish it or paint it.
I put a meter on the alternator and I got 13.5 volts at about half throttle. That will come in real handy on longer cruises. I hope to join the BEER cruise in June down on the Florida panhandle.
My wife came home and knew I was messing with the gull. She could smell the British Seagull cologne on me

keith

[Ian Malcolm]

I dont see how one can make a good solder joint on a brass tank thats full of water. The brass *must* be fully up to the melting point of the solder around the joint and to the full depth of any crack present. *MAYBE* if you are using a TIG or Oxyacetelene wellding torch you can get it hot enough but its going to be boiling out of the filler pretty vigorously! If you have any experiance with plumbing you know that its virtually impossible to get a good solder joint if there is *any* water in the pipe near the joint. The steam tends to blow the solder out of the joint.

To have a risk of a fuel-air explosion, one has to have FUEL and AIR in the tank at the same time. A few cc of petrol is enough to fill the tank with fuel vapour and emptying the rest of the fuel out lets in plenty of air so draining the tank and doing nothing else obviously risks it going bang big time, but if you wipe the tank inside as dry as you can, then purge it with boiling soapy water a couple of times, filling it to the brim and agitating with a handfull of ball bearings, lead shot, pea gravel or whatever you can think of , you *will* get the remaining trace of fuel down so low that it *cannot* explode. If you have a normal sense of smell, if you cant smell petrol, it cant go bang. If you are really paranoid, you could then boil it out for an hour or so, or purge it with inert gas (even car exhaust from a petrol engine car would do, any non flamable gas that wont support combustion works) before soldering, brazing or welding it.

Finally, for leak testing, why not make up an adaptor to fit a car tyre valve to the hole for the fuel tap (take the brass valve stem, cut the rubber off, remove the valve core so it doesn't melt, solder the stem into whatever plumbing fitting you can find that fits the hole, then put the valve core back, or maybe epoxy it together), put the filler cap on and screw down the vent screw then pressurise the tank to about 5 psi and *listen* for leaks then go over all sduspect areas with a brush and a washing up liquid / water mix and look for it blowing any bubbles. If you find a leak, you only have to wipe off the washing up liquid and remove the adaptor and the cap to be ready to solder it again.

P.S. in normal spring/summer/autumn conditions, your engine should start from cold in *TWO* full pulls, (full choke, throttle somewhere between 1/.3 & 2/3, carb *just* flooded with the tickler button. Maube three pulls if its frosty. Four is a reluctant seagull, checkfor fresh gas, correct mixture, ignition system, and water level between the pinch bolt and 1" higher, it should start better than that.

[CatiGull]

Echoing Ian a bit, If I dont get the plug to 'fire' on second pull and a running gull by third pull, I stop and put it right...

I share little sympathy for the others at all...

[gaffrig24]

I know they are supposed to start with just a couple of pulls. But compared to what I started with 4 pulls is nothing. The true test will come this weekend when I take it out on the water for a sail. I'm planning a day after Thanksgiving day sail. All the crowds will be in the stores and malls shopping and I'll be on the water sailing. The weatherman says we can see 70's on Friday and Saturday. It may be the last sail of the season and I plan to enjoy it. I have a bottle of Pusser's British Navy Rum and my British Seagull.


Cheers

Keith

[Ian Malcolm]

Its *good* to get out on the water. That seagull could do with a real good test run. Just dont rely on it to get you home Odds are, given the usual perversity of mechanical things, it will decide to vibrate undone the most expensive or difficult to obtain part it can think of - *SPLOSH* !!!

At this point in the procedings, its time to move on to testing the rum. *good* idea to drop the hook, as you will soon become what in PC terms is referred to as 'navigationally challenged'. I promise you after you've tested the rum sufficiently thouroughly you wont give a flying **** whether or not you get home . . . (untill you run out of rum to test)

[Colin]

I dont see how one can make a good solder joint on a brass tank thats full of water.

In shops I worked in my younger years the tank filled with water, combined with Oxygen/Acetylene, was considered the standard method of repairing a used fuel tank. This is the reason I suggested it in an earlier message. However many years have passed since I repaired tanks, other than the occasional one in my home workshop, so I decided to call an expert. Leakers Gas Tank Renew Inc. of Aldergrove BC does nothing but repair fuel tanks. I spoke with the owner and was told the following. The method I was taught years ago and the one I suggested, is still used occasionally, but its weak point is the problems incurred trying to keep water in a tank in anything but a vertical position. He suggests the best method is to purge the tank with compressed air for about 30 minutes before commencing any repair. They do have a sniffer in the shop, but I believe this is probably more of Workers Compensation requirement, since he went on to say, the nose is as good a any sniffer.

Finally, for leak testing, why not make up an adaptor to fit a car tyre valve to the hole for the fuel tap (take the brass valve stem, cut the rubber off, remove the valve core so it doesn't melt, solder the stem into whatever plumbing fitting you can find that fits the hole, then put the valve core back, or maybe epoxy it together), put the filler cap on and screw down the vent screw then pressurise the tank to about 5 psi and *listen* for leaks

Your method would work, but why go to all that trouble converting and attaching a tire valve, when the established method is a hydrostatic test - pumping water, not air, into the tank. The equipment can be built inexpensively in about an hour.

Cheers Colin.

[gaffrig24]

That seagull could do with a real good test run. Just dont rely on it to get you home Odds are, given the usual perversity of mechanical things, it will decide to vibrate undone the most expensive or difficult to obtain part it can think of - *SPLOSH* !!!

I plan on bringing my Evinrude with me just in case, I'll probably lash it to the deck or the shrouds. If I add some jerry cans to the deck I could look like a cruiser.
I don't have to worry about becoming navigationaly challeged I have a chart plotter gps that tells me where I am at all times. After a few drinks I have 2 chart plotters, how lost could I get?
Seriously, The rum comes out after the hook makes a spash, I have too much time and money invested in the boat to risk it all for a bottle of rum.

Now for the tank repair, I had the tank about 3/4+ full of water while I was soldering it. It was pegs upright so the water was not touching the area being heated up. I figured if I put water in it there would be less room for fumes. I did wash it out well before heating it up. There was very little gas smell left inside. There was no explosion so I guess it was OK. The leaks are gone but I still have to clean up the solder on one of the posts. I'll wait till after my sail for that.

Keith

[Colin]

There was no explosion so I guess it was OK. The leaks are gone but I still have to clean up the solder on one of the posts. I'll wait till after my sail for that.

Happy sailing!

[Ian Malcolm]

Hi,Colin

I think I mentioned the possibility of getting a good joint with an oxyacetylene torch and a water filled tank. I understand that oxyacetylene can provide a really intense localised heat that actually gets the tank wall hot enough to form an insulating layer of steam on the inside thus letting you weld or braze it successfully. HOWEVER that doesn't work with a propane torch and solder for the reasons I mentioned. On purging tanks, so long as the vapour concentration is below the lower explosive limit, even when the tank is heated, its safe. If you leave the airline on while you are heating it, the concentration can't build up again, however as someone who does this sort of thing very occasionally, I'm much happier if i either cant smell petrol at all or I've purged the tank with an inert gas.

I agree that ideally one should hydro the tank, but if you are looking for a tiny weeping leak, *LOW* pressure air and soapy water is extremely hard to beat. I am rather less confident than you as to how easy it would be to rig up a hydro test jig. The other major advantage of the air method, is you dont have to dry it out again before re-soldering the pin-hole that escaped you the first time. The only trouble you can get is if a bit of flux is sealing the leak as this will disolve as soon as you put petrol in but wont show up on hydro or air tests.

Keith, enjoy your sail, I am just a little *******ed off because of the amount of tax the goverment over here puts on the booze and that picture you posted of the rum bottle got me saliviating

[Duane A.]

Hello Gaffrig24- living in Atlanta Ga. / another Southern boy, check out wunderground.com/mar. Nice Forecast for ATL over the big Turkey Day weekend (Thanksgiving) and I will be out on the Atlantic busting out of Charleston S.C. Harbor catching a fair breeze then too- as for fall/winter in the Southern USA. You know you can sail all winter long here in the South! 50 F to 40F / in twelve years here. I’ve never seen 32F/O Centigrade water temperatures. I know cold water will shorten your lifespan should you happen to hit the water! Buy good PFD/harness and clip in!!! The people I love and know that live and work on the water in the cold climates back up off the water when it’s smart - Alaska USA, British Columbia, Labrador, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Maine and on South to temperate waters in the USA, Iceland, Finland, Norway, Sweden, England, etc. and those in their Southern steamy lat's (in the summer) might take some little exception to your candid remarks? They deal with our winter weather (sea temp) at the high point of summer. (Even in Southern California USA!) Let alone when they fish on a daily basis. I'll drive up the safe interstates the five hours and have a cup of tea/coffee or pint of lager with you – your choice - whenever we can work it out. Pusser’s Rum is alright, but Mount Gay with a splash of ginger and a squeeze of lime little/no ice is the deal to my pallet. In the UK a light and bitter will do nicely – Thank you! OK, OK if we’re shooting pool or darts it’s a pint of Porter or Guinness! Good luck with your Seagull! Two or three gills of Pusser’s rum and parts will disappear off your motor as Ian has so feverishly suggested. Two / five more gills will solve the problem of heat retention as you row into shore.
Bless,
D.

P.S. Parts Manuals a must/spec sheets too. Buy the ones you need. I like the Clymer for a bonus, but the things I have gleaned from this site have so added to them all. From two hundred pulls to four is good, but the people on this site set the bar! (Good on them) It’s been a hard one for me to pull up to as I so slowly rebuild my motors. I’m so grateful for the knowledge they share as they have all saved me so much time, energy and money by busting each other’s As---! So it comes down to put up or………….

[gaffrig24]

The only trouble you can get is if a bit of flux is sealing the leak as this will disolve as soon as you put petrol in but wont show up on hydro or air tests.

That explains why I didn't see any leaks untill I put fuel into the tank, I just thought I was going mad!

Sorry to hear about your booze tax. The bottle I have was a door prize at one of our boatbuilder gatherings. It has cost me plenty to keep it filled up though. I've been told to fill it with cheaper rum but that would be like pouring diesel in your Seagull...it's just wrong.

Duane, it would be great to have you come out sometime. Maybe you could join my group during one of our messabouts. We have several each year and welcome anyone with a love for boats. I hope to sail the 2007 BEER cruise. I understand it's a great time

Keith

[Colin]

Hello Ian.

You make some very valid points and for low pressure your methods are probably easier to work with than mine.

I’ve built a couple of hydro testers over the years for testing 1 ½ inch scale model locomotive boilers (huge toys for the boys!!) so consequently use them for all testing.

Cheers Colin.