Vibrating 40 plus and leaky villiers

[Mutineer]

I have a 72 40 plus with a villiers carb (mentioned in a previous post)
It was partially seized when I got it and by putting lots o' oil in the cylinder, letting it sit for a while and then working it back and forth gently I managed to free it up quite nicely
I cleaned the points and plug and I thought the carb (might've missed the second jet)
and it started up presto and I ran it in a barrel
On trying it on my boat the other day for a longer run it wouldn't quite stay up at full bore, dropping back into a less settled sounding lower pitched runnning, but still going quite fast , just uneven
Upon runnning it up at home in a barrel (sans prop) I noticed that the carb seemed to be dripping fuel out of the little hole in the float bowl quite a bit whilst runnning and the engine seemed to vibrate a fair bit, more than my other 40 pluses
I leaned out the mixture a little on the helpful suggestion of another member and whilst this seemed maybe to help the running some, it still was vibrating much more than usual and the carb still leaked noticeably more than the others
THis carb orginally had a black plastic bowl which left on another engine as I fancied the metal one better..not too keen on plastic really, they seemed to basically be the same unit except affixed differently..was that a mistake?

I was wondering if this could somehow be related to the intial seizing? (rings what have you) or if a blocked/dirty lower carb jet could be the problem?, or perhaps something else I'm oblivious of

any ideas out there?

[billyboy]

you could try isolating the trouble by swapping over the carbs and seeing if the problem persists. once you know it is definitely the carb(which is likely) then all it will need is usually a good clean

[Mutineer]

Well switched over carbs from a nice running motor to the rough vibrating 72..ran exactly the same
could this be a low end problem??
Seems to be vibrating an awful lot and making more noise than the others do

Any further ideas?

[Jerry In Maine]

not that this is the problem - just something you should check into...sometimes when the piston sticks the rings can stick in they're grooves within the piston. not sure how you could tell w/o some disassembly though. you can see the rings through the port that the carb hangs off of. you might shine a light in there and probe the rings a bit with a screwdriver or pick to see if you can tell their condition.

have you changed the oil in the gearbox? last motor i messed with had a dried up chunk of grease in the box and a broken spring...these could cause some bad vibes.

[Mutineer]

Okay here's my dim question regarding piston rings...I'd want them to have some movement right?..not corroded into the piston etc..just checking..err
I thought there was adeqaute proper SAE140 in this ones gearbox but I'll have another look

[billyboy]

ok.... so it sounds like the problem is not the carb. ...good. now if you remove the propellor shaft, replace the end cap and then run it in the barrel you should then know if it is a gearbox problem

[Charles uk]

Often the cause of vibration is from damage due to clumsy removal of the flywheel.

The flywheel or the top of the crankshaft in that area can become distorted by heavy handed use of the removal hammer.

Hang the motor on something very secure & start it, does everything look like it's running smoothly?

[Mutineer]

hmmm
perhaps this might be my new stupidest seagull moment!1
apparantly I have too many seagulls and not enough brains
This might be the one i forgot to fill the bottom end..and upon opening the plug..it looked kinda dry...^%$^%$^%4!!
It only really seems to have a little fore and aft movement of the shaft which I heard was okay?
So instead of opening it up and having a look right then and there like a person with brains would've done, I happily filled it with SAE 140 (properly..really) and then ran it up ,,it did the same sort of things
So I took the back off...it came off easy...who knew?? and of course now it's filled with yummy nougat cooured goop (emulsion!)
so I can't really see what's happening now

So about that prop shaft, how does one take it off?
I've never removed the flywheel myself, it doesn't look wobbly but I think this motor had taken a dive as it came with a broken transom mount..

[Mutineer]

Looks like a job for a tiny allen key..is this some obscure and esoteric British size too?
\
by the by had my transom mount brazed by my brother...so far so good...in a barrel
(oh and it had the vibrating problem on a normal non repaired transom mount too

[Collector Inspector]

Vibration?

What are they like, low/high, get worse with revs, are they making the motor throw its tank, left to right at idle or is it just a nasty buz through the tiller?

Does the vibration come thru the bottom of your boat thru your feet etc etc.

Maybe silly but if the tank cap was left loose, does it want to either tighten or loosen up with the vibes.

Noises?

B

[Mutineer]

Well
It seems a hell of a lot angrier than the other seagulls and I actually lost the air vent screw of the gas cap as it took off into the %@%#@%# grass(this one was broken on the bottom and thus missing the retaining wire)I have another cap but it shook the little brass insert loose and the vent won't tighten on it now (I've swapped the bits and have a functioning one now)

On the boat it wouldn't stay up at full higher pitched waaaaaaaaaa but kept droppping into a rougher lower pitched tone, then into the waaa then down again etc etc.
On my barrel/garbage can it's noiser and quite a but rougher sounding than the other 2 40 pluses I have..they seem smooth in comparison(funny!) It seems to work and I'm going to give the bottom end a good soapy rinse out so I can have a better look at the gears
The vibrating does get worse with high revs and it's felt quite noticeably through the tiller (buzzzzzzz), also much more so than my other units
I'd have to check it out again at idle to let you know about the tank (it's at my folks across town where I'm heading now anyway.
Cheeky bugger engine!

[Collector Inspector]

Yeh?

I would pull out your drive shaft.

I bet it has a "Whoop" in it. (Bent)

Post how you go with that eh?

B

[Mutineer]

Cool, another suggestion
I'll try that...and conviently I happen to have a spare
I'll let you know
nice job on the 40minus by the way I was having a gander at your rebuild

[Collector Inspector]

Thank you muchly for the nice comment re Minus.

Something to look for when clamping the gearbox up. It has to be straight on with the shaft. Another reason for vibration and noise, especially if the socket ends of the drive shaft have been worn over an extended period of time with, a twisted gearbox.

Make sure that your engine is in fact resting on a rack that you check for being level. Check that the motor is sitting in the transom clamp level as well. Attach a string and weight to pass over the centre of the spark plug hole.

Correct the offset via undoing the gearbox/torque tube bolt and a couple of whacks with a rubber mallet untill plumb.

Yes, this is the Minus with a Minor (Pun) twist that I checked out as a matter of habit.

B

PS: Before it is pointed out that the bricks are out of whack..............it is camera angle?

[Mutineer]

Another cool idea! Thanks!..that would make sense considering this particluar 40 plus had a bent skeg and broken transon mount...a twisted gear box would be quite likely and easy to check.
I'll look into that too, tomorrow, post sailing..went today..beautiful!
sailed there..seagulled back!. had some adventurous throttle cable failure (bad crimped end in villiers piston)and motor switching(switched to back up 40 plus) then fixed cable, switched back, thought better of it after a bit and swiched again...crazy!..only took a minute or so each time, century-40 plus-century-40 plus - home!