Forty series is this a Wipac 2 fault?

Having problems with a Seagull? - ask an expert here

Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo

Post Reply
african imp
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:44 am
Location: Hout Bay

Forty series is this a Wipac 2 fault?

Post by african imp »

To be honest I really do not know?

An update, over a week later.

Six pages later, I changed the old Wipac coil for another one and the engine started first time and ran perfectly, please read on if you have the time.

I tried to start this engine in 2017 and had no luck, now I am back on it and still no luck.

I am not new to Seagulls and have a few here, so I can mix and match things like carbs, plugs and plug leads, which I have changed all of.

I have tested three spark plugs and each gave a good spark.

When I started on the motor again yesterday, its on a 25:1 fuel mix with a special jet needle from SOS, I got a hint of ignition as the flywheel came to the end of its turns when the start line was pulled, then nothing.

The compression, is very good, really tops.

The points are set to o.5mm and they have been cleaned with a small flexible file I have for that job.

The fuel is fresh and unleaded, the 2 stroke oil is Shells Gemini for marine outboards.

Can anyone give me an idea on what it wrong here?
Attachments
IMG_9915.JPG
IMG_1795.JPG
Last edited by african imp on Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
tambikeboy
Posts: 842
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:01 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by tambikeboy »

Have you tried Hugo's idea squirt some wd40 whilst pulling starter cord.
Thinking out loud might be sparking at the wrong time I had one similar only to discover that it had a replacement/wrong crank.
Roll me up and smoke me when I die
Regret is just a memory written on my brow
african imp
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:44 am
Location: Hout Bay

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by african imp »

Timing? I do wonder why the compression on this motor is so high?

I do not have a can of Q20 and even if I did I could never pull the starter cord with one hand and spray Q20 fluid with the other hand as i need one hand to hold onto the tank !


I will have a look visually to see what the points are doing in relation to the piston at TDC?
User avatar
Nudge
Posts: 827
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:43 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by Nudge »

Yup!
Clean the points again, then if you still don't get a spark change the HT lead. If still nothing change out the coil. If you get a spark after changing the coil .... then it is the coil. I have not found a way of fixing the coil!
"THE KING OF BLING"!
Is it better to over think, than not think at all?
User avatar
Nudge
Posts: 827
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:43 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by Nudge »

Don't be a wimp, just hang on to the HT lead.... if you get a belt you have a spark! :lol:
"THE KING OF BLING"!
Is it better to over think, than not think at all?
tambikeboy
Posts: 842
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:01 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by tambikeboy »

african imp wrote:Timing? I do wonder why the compression on this motor is so high?

I do not have a can of Q20 and even if I did I could never pull the starter cord with one hand and spray Q20 fluid with the other hand as i need one hand to hold onto the tank !


I will have a look visually to see what the points are doing in relation to the piston at TDC?
Deodorant spray works just as good. It was originally designed for the man who wants to smell like everyone else on the train without having to wash...
Attachments
s-l300.jpg
s-l300.jpg (20.32 KiB) Viewed 1239 times
Roll me up and smoke me when I die
Regret is just a memory written on my brow
african imp
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:44 am
Location: Hout Bay

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by african imp »

Having tried two plug leads and three spark plugs and seeing a bright spark at the plug points I have no need to start my day by shocking myself!
User avatar
Nudge
Posts: 827
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:43 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by Nudge »

I have no need to start my day by shocking myself!
Come on it will help you wake up! :twisted:
"THE KING OF BLING"!
Is it better to over think, than not think at all?
User avatar
Nudge
Posts: 827
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:43 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by Nudge »

If you are getting a spark and have fuel then the has to be a timing thing.
"THE KING OF BLING"!
Is it better to over think, than not think at all?
tambikeboy
Posts: 842
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:01 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by tambikeboy »

Wouldn't be too hard to put back to 10/1 ratio worth a try. But I'm guessing timing.
Roll me up and smoke me when I die
Regret is just a memory written on my brow
african imp
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:44 am
Location: Hout Bay

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by african imp »

The normal 10:1 mix was used back in 2017, same result, no running but a bit of a try a few times, then nothing.

I am about to check the timing, I bought this off a chap who wanted it serviced, who had it be fore him, did either of them undo that timing screw?
african imp
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:44 am
Location: Hout Bay

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by african imp »

With a screw driver down the plug hole I estimated where TDC is, then clamped the flywheel in place with a G clamp to enable me to take this image.

The points are wide open, should they be?


On my 1967 Hillman Imp the spark takes place three degrees before TDC, where should the spark happen with a British Seagull engine?
Attachments
IMG_1810.JPG
african imp
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:44 am
Location: Hout Bay

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by african imp »

The timing screw was not tight, it was where it should be ? but not tight.

I removed it, used a tourch to inspect where it should go, then on re tightening the base plate moved itself to what I assume is the correct position, I then tightened the screw.


The G clamp screw is holding the flywheel and at what I think is TDC, it is not screwed down hard.

I also did as the hand book says and used alcohol to clean the points.

I then teste for a spark on the spark plug, no issues in that department, the motor still does not fire up !
Attachments
IMG_1815.JPG
Last edited by african imp on Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
african imp
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:44 am
Location: Hout Bay

Re: Forty series Wipac 2 fault?

Post by african imp »

I was asked on another page to clean the points and check the timing.

I have seen in the Service Sheet that for the Forty series the HT lead needs to exit the base plate in the 8 o clock postion.

My re screw driver is pointing to the center of the HT entry.
Attachments
IMG_1817.JPG
african imp
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:44 am
Location: Hout Bay

Re: Forty series is this a Wipac 2 fault?

Post by african imp »

Having proven that there is suction at the carburetor spigot with a small plastic bag, I next need to test for a timing issue by moving the base plate?

Do I move it clockwise or anti clockwise?
Attachments
IMG_1819.JPG
Post Reply