Forty Minus - SJM 666 L5

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Polybus
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Location: Port Douglas

Forty Minus - SJM 666 L5

Post by Polybus »

I've got the remnants of this little fella in my parts bin - it came as part of a bulk purchase from Queensland, Australia.

I decided to look it up and see what I could see, but when I put this Engine No into the Engine Identifier, I get error - Invalid Month Code, but the rest of the info comes through.

It is the correct Engine No:

Check it out.
SJM666L5 - Engine No (Lo-Res).jpg
Anyone able to let me know an approximate Date of Manufacture?

Cheers.
Raya
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Re: Forty Minus - SJM 666 L5

Post by Raya »

My guess would be late 56 to early 57.
Polybus
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Re: Forty Minus - SJM 666 L5

Post by Polybus »

Thanks Raya.

What makes you narrow it down to Late 56/early 57?

How do the Month Codes work?

Cheers.
Polybus
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Re: Forty Minus - SJM 666 L5

Post by Polybus »

I've been doing a bit more research - and now I know why the SOS Engine Identifier has been spitting out an error.

You can find lots of information here:

http://www.britishseagullparts.com/identification.htm

or of course, here:

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/i_ ... etters.htm


Serial Numbers (1963 to 1996)
From 1963 on a letter code, production number and ending letter(s) and number code were used in the serial number to denote the model, production number and month and year of manufacture.

The letter indicates the month and the number the year of manufacture, i.e. A3 = January 1963, B3 = February 1963, etc., and M3 = December 1963 (the letter L is not used in this code sequence).

From 1973 two letters were used in the code to indicate the month, i.e. AA3 = January 1973, BB3 = February 1973, and MM3 = December 1973. Therefore identification of a model and date of manufacture can be found as follows: WSPCL 1734 BB3. WSPCL indicates this is a long shaft Silver Century Plus. 1734 is the production number and BB3 indicates that it was manufactured in February 1973.

From 1983 to 1992 a single letter was used again in the code to indicated the month manufactured and from 1993 to 1996 two letters were used, however, this is not necessarily accurate. Many engines manufactured during this time period (1983 to 1996) were outside their supposed production slot.
Seagull Table.jpg
The letter notation from 1983 to 1996 is not necessarily accurate. Many engines manufactured during this time period were outside their supposed production slot.


Given that my Engine No is definitely an "L" - according to the above - it shouldn't exist!! But it does!

So if the "L" slots in somewhere between the "K" and the "M" - then this engine must be late 1955
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Collector Inspector
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Re: Forty Minus - SJM 666 L5

Post by Collector Inspector »

Just a thought but what is the date stamped on the flywheel under the cover plate.

BnC
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
Polybus
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Re: Forty Minus - SJM 666 L5

Post by Polybus »

It's a good thought, but this crankcase came in a bulk purchase of very dead Seagulls - this one has no flywheel on it :(
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Charles uk
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Re: Forty Minus - SJM 666 L5

Post by Charles uk »

Has any one thought about the gentleman who stamped this engine number?

All day long his job comprises testing the motors in the test tank, & providing this featherweight passes the test, it's taken out of the water cleaned off, taken to the bench where the number is stamped, where the number is found in the build book (lets pretend this is April 1963 around then they might have been building 2.5 to 4 K motors a month), so in front of him on the bench are the punches he's using, S,J,M,P,L,D , 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 & 9.
Now what would you do if you picked up the wrong punch? if you noticed.

If it failed the test tank & wasn't a 5 minute fix, a lot were stripped down & started again.

I don't remember which year CharlesP, JW, & I did this research, but Charles & I went for cups of tea with many ex employees from the Production Director down, had a chat with one yesterday talking about Seagull prototypes.

We did make a few mistakes on the identify database , it's funny how many others made similar errors.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Polybus
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Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:42 am
Location: Port Douglas

Re: Forty Minus - SJM 666 L5

Post by Polybus »

A mistake at the factory - that's an interesting thought.

Charles uk - You're right - it does seem like an easy mistake to make, perhaps on a Friday afternoon when you're looking forward to the week-end after a big week at work.

But then again - if you've been punching the letter "K" on engines every day for a month - it seems a bit of a stretch to think you might just suddenly punch the letter "L" by mistake.

But if it's say the first day of December, you've been punching "K" of every engine, every day for a month, and now, when you are supposed to change from punching "K" to punching "M" - it doesn't seem a stretch at all to imagine someone went from "K" to "L" - perhaps a newish employee who didn't know, or forgot that "L" was to be omitted and go straight from "K" to "M". Perhaps there were a few of these "L" engines stamped before he realised, or was informed of his mistake.

It's not like it was a completely automated process like today - mistakes did happen.

And on this occasion it happened to "The Devil's Seagull..... Engine No: SJM 666 L5 :twisted: :twisted: :mrgreen:

I reckon Charles uk may have solved the mystery!!

I have decided - this one is going to fly again - its going to take a lot of work, and probably a lot more money than its worth - but hey, you know how it is :P
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Charles uk
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Re: Forty Minus - SJM 666 L5

Post by Charles uk »

Your forgetting he was using the L all the time, many of the Seagulls during that time were long shaft, liitle boats weren't as plentiful in the 50's & 60's & not many had money for toy boats!

If that week they were only assembling 40 that's all the punches he'd need to hand.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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Collector Inspector
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Re: Forty Minus - SJM 666 L5

Post by Collector Inspector »

"I have decided - this one is going to fly again - its going to take a lot of work, and probably a lot more money than its worth - but hey, you know how it is "

I do and we do.

I had a basket case SJM and now just the sweetest looker and runner after a lot of effort.

Some may also say silly $s as well...

Get cracking on aye.

BnC
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
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