NEW FEATHERWEIGHT......(input required)
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
NEW FEATHERWEIGHT......(input required)
I have been saving a new featherweight(which i bought years ago) for my retirement, . Well, the wrapping is off and it has been pressed into service. It is now attatched to a Bic 252 sports boat . I drove it several miles at the weekend but found it running rather 'heavy' ,almost to the point of four stroking. It was being fed on 10:1 mix and the running depth of the prop. was about 6 inches deeper on average than the depth it should have been. The 10:1 mix was possibly a wee bit more than 10:1. (8:1) Would these two factors (singly or together) have contributed to heaviness of the motor ? Would it be ok. to run the motor on say 20:1 without any detrimental effect ?I ran it briefly in a test tank, without the prop, at the right prop depth on 25:1 mix and it 'flew'.Are there any other factors i have to add to the equation ??
I've found with my motors that running too deep will definitely make it "Run Heavy". Both my Forty Plus longshafts have the depth adjusting collars and fiddling with this to get the right depth makes a huge difference to the way it runs. Based on my motors 6" too deep would be a lot.
Running in a tank with out the prop in my experience tells you very little other than the motor runs, with no load they seem to "fly" even though the same motor will run poorly on the boat under load. Even with the prop on in a tank (unless it's a very big one) the way the water swirls and bubbles means the prop is under a lot less load than it is on the boat, and so again it can seem to be running better than it actually is.
I agree with CharlesP on making sure what mixture you need for the motor from theyear and also checking the needle to make sure it is the appropriate one. I'm assuming from your post you bought it new so it will not have been modified but that doesn't always guarantee you have exactly what you expect, better to check and see. It would be a crying shame to ruin a "new motor".
Being new, if thats the case, performance will improve after you have it run/broken in. If the motor is a little tight combined with too much exhaust back pressure from being in too deep performance and throttle response will suffer significantly.
I would make certain you know the right fuel mix ratio, then make sureyou have fresh fuel of exactly the right mix in the motor none of that 10:1/8:1 mix you mentioned
. Next make sure you have a means to adjust the motor to the correct operating depth, adjustable height collar or mods to your transom or outboard bracket. Try it again on your boat and I'm sure it will run fine.
Running in a tank with out the prop in my experience tells you very little other than the motor runs, with no load they seem to "fly" even though the same motor will run poorly on the boat under load. Even with the prop on in a tank (unless it's a very big one) the way the water swirls and bubbles means the prop is under a lot less load than it is on the boat, and so again it can seem to be running better than it actually is.
I agree with CharlesP on making sure what mixture you need for the motor from theyear and also checking the needle to make sure it is the appropriate one. I'm assuming from your post you bought it new so it will not have been modified but that doesn't always guarantee you have exactly what you expect, better to check and see. It would be a crying shame to ruin a "new motor".
Being new, if thats the case, performance will improve after you have it run/broken in. If the motor is a little tight combined with too much exhaust back pressure from being in too deep performance and throttle response will suffer significantly.
I would make certain you know the right fuel mix ratio, then make sureyou have fresh fuel of exactly the right mix in the motor none of that 10:1/8:1 mix you mentioned
. Next make sure you have a means to adjust the motor to the correct operating depth, adjustable height collar or mods to your transom or outboard bracket. Try it again on your boat and I'm sure it will run fine.1975 Forty Plus L/S 30 hrs from new
1976 Forty Plus L/S 1 Gal. Long Range tank
1983 Silver Century 90 EFNR 32 hrs from new
1976 Forty Plus L/S 1 Gal. Long Range tank
1983 Silver Century 90 EFNR 32 hrs from new
ref. Featherweight
ok thanks for the replies....................I was only going on what was listed on the tank transfer (10:1) regarding the fuel mix. The engine number is F2145JJ8 ..........The carb is one of those things with the black plastic fuel bowl. I have some Bing carbs on the shelf ..........would it be better of with one of those ?
I guess your engine is a September 1978 model from that number, but I thought the F prefix only ran until 1976.
I run a 1974 Featherweight, F306DD4 on a light 8ft dinghy. Mine is converted to run on 25:1 and it is running several inches deeper than it should be but maybe not as much as 6".
I have found that to get it to run without 4 stroking I have had to screw the carb mixture adjustment down to to between 2 and 2¼ turns below "flush" but it runs fine and pushes the dinghy along a treat.
The pics below (click to enlarge) show my engine, the Villiers carb, which I guess is the same as yours and the marking (a number 3 ) on the old 10:1 needle. Also the dinghy.
I think you should check that the float height is correct. It should be 7/32" below the underside of the carb body (measure it with a 7/32" drill bit up close to the centrepiece ) and that you do in fact have a number 3 needle fitted.
Assuming that those are Ok and that the float needle is seating properly simply adjust the mixture until you get it to run without 4 stroking but it might be sensible to adjust the depth first. You can experiment with a Jubilee clip around the drive shaft housing and if you find that it does make a difference get a proper depth adjusting collar from John. Mix your fuel accurately. It'll run happily on 16:1, but it may not be so happy with 8:1 and be sure to use a proper 2 stroke outboard engine oil.
I don't think you should swap over to a Bing carb. I think if you read all the info about carbs on John's website you will find that although Bings were used for a while Seagull reverted to Villiers again later.
Final thought: I reckon the Featherweight is too small fo the Bic 252. It's ceratinly bigger than my dinghy and about twice as heavy. Spec here Its never going to make it fly.
I run a 1974 Featherweight, F306DD4 on a light 8ft dinghy. Mine is converted to run on 25:1 and it is running several inches deeper than it should be but maybe not as much as 6".
I have found that to get it to run without 4 stroking I have had to screw the carb mixture adjustment down to to between 2 and 2¼ turns below "flush" but it runs fine and pushes the dinghy along a treat.
The pics below (click to enlarge) show my engine, the Villiers carb, which I guess is the same as yours and the marking (a number 3 ) on the old 10:1 needle. Also the dinghy.
I think you should check that the float height is correct. It should be 7/32" below the underside of the carb body (measure it with a 7/32" drill bit up close to the centrepiece ) and that you do in fact have a number 3 needle fitted.
Assuming that those are Ok and that the float needle is seating properly simply adjust the mixture until you get it to run without 4 stroking but it might be sensible to adjust the depth first. You can experiment with a Jubilee clip around the drive shaft housing and if you find that it does make a difference get a proper depth adjusting collar from John. Mix your fuel accurately. It'll run happily on 16:1, but it may not be so happy with 8:1 and be sure to use a proper 2 stroke outboard engine oil.
I don't think you should swap over to a Bing carb. I think if you read all the info about carbs on John's website you will find that although Bings were used for a while Seagull reverted to Villiers again later.
Final thought: I reckon the Featherweight is too small fo the Bic 252. It's ceratinly bigger than my dinghy and about twice as heavy. Spec here Its never going to make it fly.
Hi, I'm a little confused on your serial # if I 'm reading it correctly the motor is a 1978. But this serial # would normally have the prefix GF to indicate a Bing Carb or FS if Villiers. If it has the Villiers carb then it should be made for 10:1 mix and the tank transfer confirms this.
I'm still assuming this is a new unused until now motor from your description so it will not have had a 25:1 needle retrofitted. I wouldn't consider changing the carb, one to keep it original and two I wouldn't change anything until I'd tried it again with accurately mixed fuel and running at the correct depth to see if there really is a problem. I would also continue running until the motor is fully broken/run in.
Once I knew it ran correctly, my personal preference would be to fit a 25:1 needle so I could reduce the amount of oil used, but that's up to you I'm sure everyone has their own thoughts.
Another thought is what spark plug are you using, still worth checking the gap and maybe trying another plug. I've had a few new plugs in different vehicles over the years that have been faulty from new and caused various problems. No harm in checking the points are clean and correctly gapped either. Even stored from knew you could get some of the issues related to storing a used motor as I believe Seagull used to run and test them before they left the factory so I guess there could be issues of fuel residue etc?
I'm still assuming this is a new unused until now motor from your description so it will not have had a 25:1 needle retrofitted. I wouldn't consider changing the carb, one to keep it original and two I wouldn't change anything until I'd tried it again with accurately mixed fuel and running at the correct depth to see if there really is a problem. I would also continue running until the motor is fully broken/run in.
Once I knew it ran correctly, my personal preference would be to fit a 25:1 needle so I could reduce the amount of oil used, but that's up to you I'm sure everyone has their own thoughts.
Another thought is what spark plug are you using, still worth checking the gap and maybe trying another plug. I've had a few new plugs in different vehicles over the years that have been faulty from new and caused various problems. No harm in checking the points are clean and correctly gapped either. Even stored from knew you could get some of the issues related to storing a used motor as I believe Seagull used to run and test them before they left the factory so I guess there could be issues of fuel residue etc?
1975 Forty Plus L/S 30 hrs from new
1976 Forty Plus L/S 1 Gal. Long Range tank
1983 Silver Century 90 EFNR 32 hrs from new
1976 Forty Plus L/S 1 Gal. Long Range tank
1983 Silver Century 90 EFNR 32 hrs from new
ref. featherweight.
I take your point about the weight of the 252 Vic..........I did wonder at the time whether the featherweight would be beefy enough to push the the whole thing . Most of my' running around 'is done on the open sea in calm conditions out here in the philippines but i found even with a slight chop i had to throttle back to stop the hull slamming and shipping water over the bows.I dont know where bic got the title "sports" from for the 252 but its hardly deserved. I occasionaly carry a lot of fishing gear and an extra person and was thinking about shortening a silver century plus to do the 'pushing ' However , given the limitations of the hull i may be as well sticking with featherweight.........im sure itll run fine after its been fettled (and the transom modified) JT.
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CatiGull
- Posts: 267
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:35 am
- Location: Delmar on Hudson NY USA.........3000 nm west of THe Black Country
1977 and 1978 were the years of Bing carbs, but the description of a black fuel bowl is consistent with a Villiers carb. I wouldnt count on all 77s and 78s having Bings anyway, the way that stuff came from Seagull was quite entropic sometimes.
Anyway, an unmodified Villiers should be run on 10:1. 10:1 isnt 8:1 - you well have indentified the cause of your heavy running.
Anyway, an unmodified Villiers should be run on 10:1. 10:1 isnt 8:1 - you well have indentified the cause of your heavy running.
Stephen
Awenke Yacht Club
New Baltimore NY
S/V Catigale
Macgregor 26X
Island 17 Sloop
Awenke Yacht Club
New Baltimore NY
S/V Catigale
Macgregor 26X
Island 17 Sloop
Fuel Mix
All seagulls from Jan 1st 1978 were converted to 25:1 at the factory.
It will likely be a Villiers carb as they started reusing villiers then, will have a black plastic float chamber and air intake.
Unless yours has been tinkered with, you should be on 25:1 mix. Use a good marine two stroke oil and get the mounting height right. Makes a lot of difference. Yes I can supply height reducers...
Hope this helps.
It will likely be a Villiers carb as they started reusing villiers then, will have a black plastic float chamber and air intake.
Unless yours has been tinkered with, you should be on 25:1 mix. Use a good marine two stroke oil and get the mounting height right. Makes a lot of difference. Yes I can supply height reducers...
Hope this helps.