Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
Charles, lets just say the Australian Outboard manufactures got their inspiration from US and UK brands.
Verity for example is very much Muncie Neptune (lower) and Johnson (upper) inspired. Riptide was based on Verity with design changes making it more economical to produce.
Marlin 4hp uses Villier 5F power with a locally manufactured water-cooled cylinder replacing the standard air-cooled unit .
Olympic is very much based on British Seagull. Cromac takes it a step further with what appears to be a modified 102 cylinder. Gearbox components are also similar to the 102 clutched models, albeit house withing a radically changed casing. Crank casings are similar to Olympic, however instead of bronze bearings, it uses 4 roller bearings. The Cromac comprises the same ignition system as the Olympic (Bailey - made in Australia). Interestingly the Seagull 102, Olympic and Cromac are all rated 4hp.
Some Cromac pics
Here's a photo of the Bailey Ignition (sames as Olympic) however from my Aussie made SPEED. Base plate is slightly different ie there were numerous models available.
All interesting stuff.
Regards,
Spiro
Verity for example is very much Muncie Neptune (lower) and Johnson (upper) inspired. Riptide was based on Verity with design changes making it more economical to produce.
Marlin 4hp uses Villier 5F power with a locally manufactured water-cooled cylinder replacing the standard air-cooled unit .
Olympic is very much based on British Seagull. Cromac takes it a step further with what appears to be a modified 102 cylinder. Gearbox components are also similar to the 102 clutched models, albeit house withing a radically changed casing. Crank casings are similar to Olympic, however instead of bronze bearings, it uses 4 roller bearings. The Cromac comprises the same ignition system as the Olympic (Bailey - made in Australia). Interestingly the Seagull 102, Olympic and Cromac are all rated 4hp.
Some Cromac pics
Here's a photo of the Bailey Ignition (sames as Olympic) however from my Aussie made SPEED. Base plate is slightly different ie there were numerous models available.
All interesting stuff.
Regards,
Spiro
www.vintageoutboardsaustralia.blogspot.com
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
The Cromac looks like a 3 piece crank, Seagull didn't advance that far until about 1990!
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
I hope you do not mind S. These are some pics of Tiller"s Ignition.
I cleaned and gapped the points only. No cleaning needed.
And Tiller has no engine number.........
Cheers
BnC
I cleaned and gapped the points only. No cleaning needed.
And Tiller has no engine number.........
Cheers
BnC
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
Playing Olympics again today, with emphasis placed in tearing down Hugo's ex Serial No 0106.
All looks to be same as my # 276 with the exception of the lower crank case casting (no stops for tiller) and the cover at the lead side of the gearbox.
Should add Hugo's 106 was also fitted with a Seagull tiller, a likely replacement at some stage prior to Hugo purchasing it. Not correct for my # 276 however but will suffice until a correct tiller is found.
Have to recheck the threads as it dawned on me I was using Whitworth spanners whilst stripping # 276. From pics however it is clear they are different to Seagull. Will confirm.
Hope to measure ring gaps from # 276 in both Olympic and Seagull barrels tomorrow. Wife is not real impressed with the time and money I'm putting in to these things, so I need to make amends lol.
More on Monday as I am also without a computer and cannot resize images to post here.
Regards
Spiro
All looks to be same as my # 276 with the exception of the lower crank case casting (no stops for tiller) and the cover at the lead side of the gearbox.
Should add Hugo's 106 was also fitted with a Seagull tiller, a likely replacement at some stage prior to Hugo purchasing it. Not correct for my # 276 however but will suffice until a correct tiller is found.
Have to recheck the threads as it dawned on me I was using Whitworth spanners whilst stripping # 276. From pics however it is clear they are different to Seagull. Will confirm.
Hope to measure ring gaps from # 276 in both Olympic and Seagull barrels tomorrow. Wife is not real impressed with the time and money I'm putting in to these things, so I need to make amends lol.
More on Monday as I am also without a computer and cannot resize images to post here.
Regards
Spiro
Last edited by AusAnzani on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
www.vintageoutboardsaustralia.blogspot.com
Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
No problem at all B, all info is good info. In fact I've been able to spot a few things in your photos.
Your Tiller has the same lower crank case housing as my # 276, see the end stops limiting tiller movement to from horizontal to vertical.
Of course the hub of your tiller handle comprises the matching stops. Different from Seagull.
Do you by chance have a spare tiller handle as such. My # 276 came without, and unfortunately Hugo's # 106 was with a Seagull tiller, suitable for his # 106 as there are no stops in the crank case casting.
Regards
Spiro
Your Tiller has the same lower crank case housing as my # 276, see the end stops limiting tiller movement to from horizontal to vertical.
Of course the hub of your tiller handle comprises the matching stops. Different from Seagull.
Do you by chance have a spare tiller handle as such. My # 276 came without, and unfortunately Hugo's # 106 was with a Seagull tiller, suitable for his # 106 as there are no stops in the crank case casting.
Regards
Spiro
www.vintageoutboardsaustralia.blogspot.com
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
Tiller handle.............hang Dude!
BnC
BnC
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
You're a good lad. Happy to trade also for something you might need ... if you find a spare that isCollector Inspector wrote:Tiller handle.............hang Dude!
BnC
www.vintageoutboardsaustralia.blogspot.com
Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
OK, so here are some more pics. Hopefully all questions (bar one) are answered and I can focus on rebuilding this thing lol
Gearbox cap comparisons. To the right is Hugo's Olympic # 103, very much the same as that on a standard AD 102. To the left is gearbox from my # 276. May be somewhat difficult to see in the photos but instead of being a perfect dome, it projects slightly further and has a sharper leading edge making it more streamlined.
Drive shaft coupling and drive shafts are different from that on Seagull 102 models.
The drive shaft on the Olympic comprises a round tube with bronze inserts with closed ends. Much heavier than the standard.
Gearbox cap comparisons. To the right is Hugo's Olympic # 103, very much the same as that on a standard AD 102. To the left is gearbox from my # 276. May be somewhat difficult to see in the photos but instead of being a perfect dome, it projects slightly further and has a sharper leading edge making it more streamlined.
Drive shaft coupling and drive shafts are different from that on Seagull 102 models.
The drive shaft on the Olympic comprises a round tube with bronze inserts with closed ends. Much heavier than the standard.
www.vintageoutboardsaustralia.blogspot.com
Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
From the previous, it may have been apparent that there were differences in the overall outboard height dimensions. Here you can clearly see the differences in exhaust tube lengths. Also, whilst the exhaust tube on the Olympic is shorter, it is heavier gauge bronze.
Standard AD 102 left, Olympic right.
This pic shows the differences in the profile of the water pump housing. Note the tapered sides and leading edge profile.
Could not get a quality shot here, but whilst the engine mounts appear identical, the holes that the crank case studs pass through are located differently. This makes fitting of olympic engines on Seagull tubes (and vice versa) difficult, but not impossible.
Standard AD 102 left, Olympic right.
This pic shows the differences in the profile of the water pump housing. Note the tapered sides and leading edge profile.
Could not get a quality shot here, but whilst the engine mounts appear identical, the holes that the crank case studs pass through are located differently. This makes fitting of olympic engines on Seagull tubes (and vice versa) difficult, but not impossible.
www.vintageoutboardsaustralia.blogspot.com
Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
Crank on the Olympic appears to be 3 piece construction, welded at the crank lobes. Cant say that i have seen this type of construction before. Quite strange actually.
Also, as advised earlier, the piston pins have brass end caps inserted at both ends.
Also, as advised earlier, the piston pins have brass end caps inserted at both ends.
www.vintageoutboardsaustralia.blogspot.com
Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
Conrod castings, same but different again. No attempt has been made to check overall length, or length between centers between the little and big ends.
The Olympic appears to have a larger bearing cap, and a smaller lubrication port. Interestingly there was no wire securing the screws on Olympic # 276, but there was on Hugo's # 103.
The Olympic appears to have a larger bearing cap, and a smaller lubrication port. Interestingly there was no wire securing the screws on Olympic # 276, but there was on Hugo's # 103.
www.vintageoutboardsaustralia.blogspot.com
Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
All threads confirmed to be UNC.
The bore in the Olympic is larger definitely diameter. Using rings from the Olympic to compare.
Olympic
Gap = 0.165" or 4.191mm
Seagull
Gap = 0.1525" or 3.874mm
The gaps seem quite large to me (normally 2-4 thou per inch diamater for water-cooled engines I would have thought). Not sure if there is a spec available to compare, but I will redo with rings from 103 to see if there is consistency.
The only thing left to do is to map the ports. I've tried various methods but have been unsuccessful. I am therefore looking for tips on how to proceed.
Regards,
Spiro
The bore in the Olympic is larger definitely diameter. Using rings from the Olympic to compare.
Olympic
Gap = 0.165" or 4.191mm
Seagull
Gap = 0.1525" or 3.874mm
The gaps seem quite large to me (normally 2-4 thou per inch diamater for water-cooled engines I would have thought). Not sure if there is a spec available to compare, but I will redo with rings from 103 to see if there is consistency.
The only thing left to do is to map the ports. I've tried various methods but have been unsuccessful. I am therefore looking for tips on how to proceed.
Regards,
Spiro
Last edited by AusAnzani on Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
www.vintageoutboardsaustralia.blogspot.com
Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
Hey Bruce, couple qurestions for you please mate.
Are the fuel tank and tiller arm on your "Tiller" Light Blue or Light Green? I am seeing different colors depending on lighting conditions.
For the record, I have noted a mix of Light Blue and Yellow on the drive shaft from # 103 and am wondering if the Light Blue might be same as that on your Tiller. I need a reference to color match.
Also, if you could you please confirm whether the crank case assembly, water-pump housing, gearbox and propeller on your Tiller are painted a light silver hammertone, that would be appreciated.
And finally, dimensions for the decals please. I am speculating same widths, different heights (mm).
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Spiro
Are the fuel tank and tiller arm on your "Tiller" Light Blue or Light Green? I am seeing different colors depending on lighting conditions.
For the record, I have noted a mix of Light Blue and Yellow on the drive shaft from # 103 and am wondering if the Light Blue might be same as that on your Tiller. I need a reference to color match.
Also, if you could you please confirm whether the crank case assembly, water-pump housing, gearbox and propeller on your Tiller are painted a light silver hammertone, that would be appreciated.
And finally, dimensions for the decals please. I am speculating same widths, different heights (mm).
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Spiro
www.vintageoutboardsaustralia.blogspot.com
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
S
Braved the red-backs and the smell of mice! I will shut Cello in the back shed overnight with a bowl of water and no dinner. No litter tray either because that will piss her right off........goodby rodents.
OK
Main Tank Sticker is 85 x 57mm.
Lubrication sticker is 84 x 32mm
I had a good look for an engine number (or any number at all) and nothing.
The cases, gearbox and pump housing have no paint at all. Bare cast aluminium. The gear box and pump housing have been linished but not looking "Polished" sort of deal. The transom clamps have frosted over bronze.
The colour is indeed Green under which has the yellow primer we all know so well.
There is the usual red lead primer under black on the barrel..........No sign of any plating.
Please share these pics mate. On Yr Group etc.
Cheers
BnC
[/color][/b]
Braved the red-backs and the smell of mice! I will shut Cello in the back shed overnight with a bowl of water and no dinner. No litter tray either because that will piss her right off........goodby rodents.
OK
Main Tank Sticker is 85 x 57mm.
Lubrication sticker is 84 x 32mm
I had a good look for an engine number (or any number at all) and nothing.
The cases, gearbox and pump housing have no paint at all. Bare cast aluminium. The gear box and pump housing have been linished but not looking "Polished" sort of deal. The transom clamps have frosted over bronze.
The colour is indeed Green under which has the yellow primer we all know so well.
There is the usual red lead primer under black on the barrel..........No sign of any plating.
Please share these pics mate. On Yr Group etc.
Cheers
BnC
[/color][/b]
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others
- Collector Inspector
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- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:32 am
- Location: Perth Western Australia
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Re: Australian Olympic vs British Seagull AD102
The ring gaps..........totally incorrect I am afraid.
Such as those indicates at the very least ring breakage under load.
That is if the poor things actually run.
I suggest revisit?
Cheers
BnC
Such as those indicates at the very least ring breakage under load.
That is if the poor things actually run.
I suggest revisit?
Cheers
BnC
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others