First Seagull (bootsale £10)
I have had the engine running (first pull every time) not for long as i did not want to overheat it as the water is not pumping.
I have put a hose pipe to the head and managed to get some water flow but i have not tried the engine as yet.
Is there a better way of cleaning the water ways out and what kind of water flow will i expect when running?
Super forty plus FVP
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
A good steady stream, but not quite what I would describe as full bore.
You must be up to working revs as sometimes the pumps don't pump at all at idle. The pump must the immersed to the correct depth. Sometimes the turbulence prevents a good flow when tank tested although taking the prop off helps.
You must be up to working revs as sometimes the pumps don't pump at all at idle. The pump must the immersed to the correct depth. Sometimes the turbulence prevents a good flow when tank tested although taking the prop off helps.
Hi,
blocked power heads are rare for me. Usual cause is blocked water intake. Stick a length of Net Curtain Wire into the intake holes and poke around a bit, lots of brown sludge will come out, or use a power washer up the intake. Usually the gearbox oil will have leaked out and blocked the waterways. If water is pumped out the relief holes in the drive shaft tube then this is the cause. Always store a seagull upright, full of neat fuel with fuel tap and vent open in a warm ventilated place. Remove gearbox sludge and fill (to the top) with engine oil. Top up fuel each month.
Start of season, drain gearbox, drain fuel, refill both and restart.
Any one disagree? Works for me for last 28 years.
Regards
Phil
blocked power heads are rare for me. Usual cause is blocked water intake. Stick a length of Net Curtain Wire into the intake holes and poke around a bit, lots of brown sludge will come out, or use a power washer up the intake. Usually the gearbox oil will have leaked out and blocked the waterways. If water is pumped out the relief holes in the drive shaft tube then this is the cause. Always store a seagull upright, full of neat fuel with fuel tap and vent open in a warm ventilated place. Remove gearbox sludge and fill (to the top) with engine oil. Top up fuel each month.
Start of season, drain gearbox, drain fuel, refill both and restart.
Any one disagree? Works for me for last 28 years.
Regards
Phil
If you don't manage to clear the problem at the bottom end with a hose - and personally I think it's more likely to be a problem at the top - then proceed with caution.
The FV/FVP is a tricky beast to dismantle. No clenchbolt at the water pump housing, and a devilish clenchbolt arrangement at the crankcase. That means you'll have to part it at the top of the driveshaft tube. Be very careful not to destroy either of the rings that clamp onto the crankcase - they're extremely difficult (virtually impossible) to replace. You may need heat round the area to expand the alloy sufficiently to get the tube (and driveshaft) off. The shaft itself is a thinner version of the normal ones, and can suffer from rust, so may be solid on the crankshaft end. And the other end, come to think of it...
Once you've got those off, then the normal methods suffice for removal of tank, carb, and magneto. Any doubts, come back here to ask.
The really challenging bit is the dismantling of the power head itself. The FV/FVP block isn't like other Seagulls. The cylinder block itself is hollow, and it has the steel studs that join crankcase/block/cylinder head going right through, with steel gaskets top and bottom. This arrangement is a successful recipe for galvanic corrosion, and if your FVP has been used in salt water then there will be evidence of this. The nuts should come off the head fairly easily, and some cylinder heads fall off these models with great ease. Most don't - they were stuck in there with a black Bostik compound to ensure a gas and watertight joint way back when the thing was made, and the stuff sticks like the proverbial &$£% to a blanket.
Once you've persuaded the head to part company from the block, then ease off the gasket - you may need a new one and there are none available, so preserve what you can.
By now you'll have a fair idea about the amount of crud in the water jacket. If there is none at all you'll be cursing the amount of work you've done, and you'll have to stick it all back together, liberally smearing the gasket faces (especially round the holes for studs) with RTV sealant. Then start taking the water pump housing from the gearbox casing. That bit is the same as for every forty, and once that's off you can look at the water pump impellor. They don't wear, or at least very rarely. But those on the FV/FVP can sort of dissolve. Early ones are alloy, which turns into a shapeless mass of millions of holes. Later ones are bronze, probably surviving rather better. They are not the same as the ordinary forty impellors, the internal square is smaller (for the smaller shaft)
Returning to the top - if there actually is a water jacket full of rusty rubbish it'll have to go, of course. That means parting the block from the crankcase - same sort of gasket, same sort of goop sticking it together.
Once parted resist the temptation to remove the long studs from the crankcase. They'll be crying out to have their threads recut or at least wire brushed, but resist the temptation. There is a horrible possibility that they'll wind quite easily out of the crankcase, but they'll take a lump of aluminium with them. The stud will look like a cotton bud, and you will have a welding job on your hands, which together with drilling and tapping a new hole, will be unwelcome.
The rusty stuff itself comes in a number of forms. If you've plenty of time on your hands it'll be soft, and you'll be able to push the stuff out. Thsee blocks are at least easy to clean, you can see right through them, and a bronze brush for a 9mm pistol barrel/chamber is a good tool to use. If you're in a rush it'll be a concreted mass of stuff that has all the peoperties of iron, and you'll have to chip it out.
Once done, reassemble with lots of Hermetite/Loctite/ goopy stuff (even the factory service sheets stress the liberal nature of the application) and start her up. You'll find that these motors are really prolific water pumpers, right down to tickover. There's video of one of mine on John's site pumping at such low revs you think it's about to stop.
These little motors - the first ones ever designed solely by Bill Pinniger - are my favourites. They are pests to strip and maintain, but they're cute, pump well, and they're a part of British Maritime history.
Take good care of the Seagull logo, there are very few legible ones around (I'm assuming the photos are yours)
Any problems come back here, or even better pm me and I'll give you my telephone number.
The FV/FVP is a tricky beast to dismantle. No clenchbolt at the water pump housing, and a devilish clenchbolt arrangement at the crankcase. That means you'll have to part it at the top of the driveshaft tube. Be very careful not to destroy either of the rings that clamp onto the crankcase - they're extremely difficult (virtually impossible) to replace. You may need heat round the area to expand the alloy sufficiently to get the tube (and driveshaft) off. The shaft itself is a thinner version of the normal ones, and can suffer from rust, so may be solid on the crankshaft end. And the other end, come to think of it...
Once you've got those off, then the normal methods suffice for removal of tank, carb, and magneto. Any doubts, come back here to ask.
The really challenging bit is the dismantling of the power head itself. The FV/FVP block isn't like other Seagulls. The cylinder block itself is hollow, and it has the steel studs that join crankcase/block/cylinder head going right through, with steel gaskets top and bottom. This arrangement is a successful recipe for galvanic corrosion, and if your FVP has been used in salt water then there will be evidence of this. The nuts should come off the head fairly easily, and some cylinder heads fall off these models with great ease. Most don't - they were stuck in there with a black Bostik compound to ensure a gas and watertight joint way back when the thing was made, and the stuff sticks like the proverbial &$£% to a blanket.
Once you've persuaded the head to part company from the block, then ease off the gasket - you may need a new one and there are none available, so preserve what you can.
By now you'll have a fair idea about the amount of crud in the water jacket. If there is none at all you'll be cursing the amount of work you've done, and you'll have to stick it all back together, liberally smearing the gasket faces (especially round the holes for studs) with RTV sealant. Then start taking the water pump housing from the gearbox casing. That bit is the same as for every forty, and once that's off you can look at the water pump impellor. They don't wear, or at least very rarely. But those on the FV/FVP can sort of dissolve. Early ones are alloy, which turns into a shapeless mass of millions of holes. Later ones are bronze, probably surviving rather better. They are not the same as the ordinary forty impellors, the internal square is smaller (for the smaller shaft)
Returning to the top - if there actually is a water jacket full of rusty rubbish it'll have to go, of course. That means parting the block from the crankcase - same sort of gasket, same sort of goop sticking it together.
Once parted resist the temptation to remove the long studs from the crankcase. They'll be crying out to have their threads recut or at least wire brushed, but resist the temptation. There is a horrible possibility that they'll wind quite easily out of the crankcase, but they'll take a lump of aluminium with them. The stud will look like a cotton bud, and you will have a welding job on your hands, which together with drilling and tapping a new hole, will be unwelcome.
The rusty stuff itself comes in a number of forms. If you've plenty of time on your hands it'll be soft, and you'll be able to push the stuff out. Thsee blocks are at least easy to clean, you can see right through them, and a bronze brush for a 9mm pistol barrel/chamber is a good tool to use. If you're in a rush it'll be a concreted mass of stuff that has all the peoperties of iron, and you'll have to chip it out.
Once done, reassemble with lots of Hermetite/Loctite/ goopy stuff (even the factory service sheets stress the liberal nature of the application) and start her up. You'll find that these motors are really prolific water pumpers, right down to tickover. There's video of one of mine on John's site pumping at such low revs you think it's about to stop.
These little motors - the first ones ever designed solely by Bill Pinniger - are my favourites. They are pests to strip and maintain, but they're cute, pump well, and they're a part of British Maritime history.
Take good care of the Seagull logo, there are very few legible ones around (I'm assuming the photos are yours)
Any problems come back here, or even better pm me and I'll give you my telephone number.