stuck flywheel

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Keith.P
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby Keith.P » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:22 pm

I used engineering blue once at school and have never used it since and what did I learn at school, bugger all.
I can see what's going on and to be honest, I think this is getting a little pathetic and it's not helping the site.
I'm not a mechanic, engineer, or even a fitter, I have no qualifications whatsoever, just a driving licence.
But in my time, I have run massive rock crushers, been a Cat 966 and 360 driver/operator, welder and even a fitter and the only thing I have to show for it is experience, it maybe not as much as others, but I'm not competing with anyone on here, if there is a way to fix a motor, it may not always be the right way to do it, but it may work for me, I don't come on here and try to tell you lot it's the right way to do it, it's my experience that dictates how and why I did it that way.
I'm 53 and I go skating every Saturday, a young lad in his 20's works there and he has been doing his mechanical engineering course at college.
He has no practical experience whatsoever and he knows it, he even took his car to Halfords to have a bulb changed, he has all the knowledge, but doesn't know how to use it and he is the one going to college and that is normal.
A lot of people don't have access to tools, like spanners and so on, because not everybody has an interest in fixing things, they just throw things away now, but some young people want to start fixing thing and they have to start somewhere, maybe they have a seagull, but no tools.
That's why you get the same silly questions asked on the site, but are they such a silly questions, to us they are, but to someone with little or no experience, it maybe a perfectly logical question to them.
I'm not saying anyone is or isn't any better at fixing this, that, or the other, if it works for you, do it, if its not the Seagull way, do it quietly.
I don't think it's very good for the people that just come and look on this site, because all they see is bickering about everything, we want new people on this site or we will just end up being a handful of old farts, wondering if they need the zimmer frames for themselves or for an outboard stands.
It's not the first time I have posted something about this, but it will be the last, I really wouldn't be missing anything interesting if I didn't bother looking on this site any more.


Now can we all please grow up?

Piglola123
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby Piglola123 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:43 pm

I feel I have to agree with Keith on this I come looking for answers and find people arguing as to who knows best etc would check in daily to see updates but ok to do this weekly now and disregard (who knows best )

headdownarseup
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby headdownarseup » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:29 am

Perhaps Charles it might help if one day if you had a guided tour of the inside of a typical main dealership workshop and you'll find that many garages these days hardly do any engine repair work as modern engines are far more reliable than they ever were. On the very odd occasion that this kind of work is needed more often than not this work is farmed out somewhere else (or at least that's what we do). Favours for favours most of the time.There's a few garages local to me where there are some of the older guys still working, but when i approach them on the subject of the "good ol days" their minds are brought back to an era of Cortina's and Mini's. Many of these older guys seem uncomfortable with how things have gone, often having to learn new skills (computers and such like) just to get by. Most of the time if you looked in the workshop where i work everyday, an awful lot of the mundane work is diagnostics. Plug a computer into a car and read the fault codes. This will then tell you what's broken on the car :shock: . Sensors mostly that stop working, but for the most part we get our fair share of servicing work with the odd worn out clutch. Quite boring really. On top of that we also prepare new cars in a PDI. Nothing very exciting happens there either. My eyes light up whenever an "old" car rolls up outside. By old i mean made back in the days when distributors and carburetors were common practice with engines that liked to leak oil from every orifice. Proper stuff not like what's around today.

A lot of the older skills are slowly dying out and older equipment thrown out partly because of cars largely being a lot more reliable than in days of old. The old boys that had these skills are also dying out and unless that knowledge and skillset is passed on to a younger generation it might be lost forever. Apart from a very stubborn and isolated few groups that still exist to maintain much of this older equipment, most of the industry i think is firmly in the 21st century looking towards greener and cleaner ways rather than carrying on with out of date technology. It's a case of keep up or lose out. It seems that to be a mechanic (apologies, TECHNICIAN :roll: ) these days you need an aptitude in electronics, computer skills and look good wearing latex gloves! Not my cup of tea at all, but it pays the bills for now.

Here in Bristol there's quite a few mobile mechanics, quite a few of them seem to be Polish or Eastern European for some reason. Bloody good mechanics most of them, and a lot have the older skills that seem to be lost with many of our boys and girls (yes we have girls in the trade now)
How things have changed.

I agree with Keith, some people have got it, and others haven't. I certainly don't have it, but i do what i can with a seagull in the privacy of my shed. No fancy tools, just experience i've gained along the way. Experience should be shared on here, no matter how often we keep hearing the same questions.
Is there a right or wrong way to do anything? Stuck flywheels will keep on coming back as one of those questions we love to hate.



Jon

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seagull101
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby seagull101 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:21 am

The way i see it is that if your not damaging parts then the way you used must be a good enough way of doing it. I leave all my cranks alone as ive never had a flywheel that wont come loose, even one from a motor that sat outside for a few years!
I removed my SD flywheel with the lift and tap method and it worked fine.
This was before i got my coolie flywheel puller, i got it wit my OP (thanks terry!)
I learnt most of i know about seagulls from this forum and all different seagull manuals.
Im also no mechanic and 90% of the stuff ive worked on has been seagulls and grey fergie tractors!

Also we all need to apoligise to deacon bruce for another typical thread hijack.
Let us know if you got your flywheel off.

Jacob

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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby tambikeboy » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:18 pm

Hail/hail keith straight to the point there's no room for handbags on this site :lol: :lol:

Jacob now we're talking :lol: :lol:

Im also no mechanic and 90% of the stuff ive worked on has been seagulls and grey fergie tractors! :lol: how many would you like :lol:
Roll me up and smoke me when I die
Regret is just a memory written on my brow

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Charles uk
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby Charles uk » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:09 pm

I wrecked a coolie hat flywheel using the lift & tap method, a real tight one on a Marston, I had a friend supporting the flywheel while I used the copper hammer, soft taps, hard blows it wouldn't move, so I stopped for a think & a look after a bit, then I noticed my coolie hat flywheel had turned into a flat top!
Imagine how distressing this is on a working Marston with all matching numbers! I had access to a flypress so could have pressed it back into shape, but felt it was better to err on the side of caution

There is no way I'd want to sit next to a heavy flywheel that had been repaired with a hammer, spinning at 4000, if a magnet caught a cheek as the crank moved in worn bearings, you might be sitting at arms length from a hand grenade!

This is why we reverse engineered those flywheel pullers & drill the CDI flywheel hubs so a special puller can be used.

Villiers flywheels tend to be cast from a quite malleable alloy whereas Wipac ones from a much harder but brittle one, as Jon so rightly says early Wipac (big window) flywheels often break during hammer removal as do tight (small window) ones, & many CDI ones show signs of cracking around the steel hub!
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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Oyster 49
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby Oyster 49 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:38 am

My Britannia has a cracked top cover, caused by somebody overtightening the flywheel nut when removing. I have no idea how I’m going to get it off! I might have to make a steel top plate to use as a tool.

Keith.P
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby Keith.P » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:25 pm

My Britannia has a cracked top cover


Are you saying the flywheel nut that, If i'm right, pulls off the flywheel has pulled out of the flywheel?

This is why we reverse engineered those flywheel pullers & drill the CDI flywheel hubs so a special puller can be used.


Drilling a flywheel sound like a last option, is there no other way of doing it?

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Charles uk
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby Charles uk » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:52 pm

Drilling the flywheel steel hub is the only way you can do it.
Let me try & explain how it's done.
CDI Flywheel puller drill guide 001.JPG


Sorry about the poor pictures.

In the top of any Wipac CDI flywheel the top of the steel hub, can be seen it has a shallow hole drilled into it, this hole is the tapping drill size for a 2BA thread, tap this hole 2BA right to the bottom, & drop the drill guide over the crankshaft & fasten down to the flywheel with a 2BA cap head using the middle hole of the 3 2BA clearance holes that are in line, the drill guide is now located by the crankshaft & the hold down screw, if you could see on my poor pic you would see that there are 2 tapping drill sized holes 120 degrees away from the hold down screw, with a cordless drill & a 4mm drill, drill 2 holes 16mm deep, remove guide & tap 2BA, replace guide holding down with one of the 2 threads you've just tapped so the first hole can be drilled to 4mm x 16mm, then tap 2BA all the way down.

The drill guide can then be fastened down using 3 2BA steel cap heads & the flywheel removed with 3 legged puller tool hooked over the brim of the inverted tophat guide!

This was designed so that a stuck CDI flywheel could be removed without damage & reused with only a cordless drill, 4mm drill, 2BA tap, a few 2BA capheads & a three legged puller tool, as CDI replacement flywheels don't grow on trees in Bermuda & New Zealand!

I see no reason why a much bigger diameter top hat guide couldn't be used on a Villiers Mk1, but the holes would have to be in line/same diameter as the hold down counter sunk flywheel screws & about 1/4" thread, it's only a matter of finding a small engineering workshop to make you the top hat drill guide, which could be held in position for drilling with a short length of tube & the flywheel nut, make sure the centre hole is exactly 7/16". So 3 holes at 5.2mm alternating with 3 at 1/4" for a 1/4 U.N.C. thread hold down. Tell them 1 5/8" PCD, 6 holes.
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Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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Oyster 49
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby Oyster 49 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:35 pm

That's very neat

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Charles uk
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby Charles uk » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:18 pm

I'm thinking how to spell thanks in German.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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Nudge
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby Nudge » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:15 am

I'm thinking how to spell thanks in German.

Vielen Dank :mrgreen:
"THE KING OF BLING"!
Is it better to over think, than not think at all?

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Oyster 49
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby Oyster 49 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:53 am

Das ist sehr gut Charles. 8)

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Charles uk
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby Charles uk » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:27 pm

Somewhere I've got a big one, the Villiers/Wipac version, that I had to make after I broke a big window Wipac when the other Charles & I were doing our overview research, I think I kept the broken flywheel.

I'll post pics if I can find it.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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Charles uk
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Re: stuck flywheel

Postby Charles uk » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:18 pm

I've found it!

It was attached to a damaged Wipac big window upside down in the garage, you could only see an upturned flywheel.
Drillguide puller 011.JPG
Narrow diameter ring of holes for Wipac, outer ring for Villiers flat top.
Drillguide puller 032.JPG


Now you can see why they're called "big window".
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