Fitting recoil starter spring, QB series.

[andypdq]

I have just spent a fruitless and sometimes painful half an hour , trying to wind and fit a recoil starter spring to a QB Osprey and have now retreated, to reconsider my strategy and lick my wounds. Any tips as to how to wind and fit the spring, whilst avoiding serious injury would be most welcome!

Thank you,

Andy

[40TPI]

Service Sheet No 25 describes replacing the starting cord on a Seagull Recoil Starter. As well as the sensible advice of wearing goggles or an alternative type of eye protection it states at para 4 that the spring must not be dislodged from the housing......... "or a new machine wound and tensioned spring will be required"

So, you are trying to do something that required purchase of a replacement spring back in Seagull factory days! I've not seen one advertised anywhere but would be intrigued to see a picture of a genuine original "replacement" coiled spring and to learn how it is secured for transit and released into the recoil housing at fitting time. The service manual is silent on that information. Maybe somebody has a picture or the information they could post?

I won't go into why I foolishly found myself in exactly the same position on my WSPCL Silver Century recoil starter recently but assuming it is the same spring arrangement as the Osprey the following may help.

After overnight thought I took a one inch wood screw and wound it in about half way at the centre of a two foot square piece of 18 mm thick plywood. (Similar use of the kitchen or dining room table is not recommended if you have a local Proj Manager.) Attach the spring outer hook end around the protruding wood screw. The underneath of the screw head should be flush with top edge of the spring to help keep the lower edge of the spring in contact with the plywood.

Now wind the spring up, using the inner hook, until the overall diameter is comfortably less than the space the fitted spring occupies in the top casting. This calls for care, with the flat of one hand always pushing down, to ensure the snake stays safely flat on the plywood ........ keeping an eye on the security of your wood screw is not a bad idea as well. ( I thought of taking a couple of pics whilst doing this but was short on hands /helpers. Now wish I'd done that.)

The difficult task is to now transfer this coiled spring to the casting. To do this I used a pair of adjustable Mole grips attached from vertically above the plywood sheet to just nip across the width of the wound up coils. (Fingers get tired too quickly and just don't have the nip strength) Depending on your dexterity you may wish to employ a helper to do this whilst you retain the coiled snake...... I managed without.

With the coils nipped together between the jaws of the adjustable Mole grips the coiled spring can be unhooked from the screw head and offered into the recoil head casting which you previously placed upside down alongside the sheet of plywood. The outer hook spring hook end may or may not easily engage into the casting slot.....

(You may have to adjust the geometry of the outer spring end.... depends on if it has been bent in your previous battle(s).... Consider going back to the flat plywood and screw to assist in gently releasing the snake controlled with the flat of the hand before adjusting the spring end. You have already probably experienced an unexpected angry snake release and wish to avoid another ..... )

Assuming it looks like it will hook up easily the next task is to actually finally place/drop it in. The Mole grip jaw will tend to foul the inside of the head on the last half inch or so of approach but this is where you have to get inventive. I can't find words to describe putting it in the last half inch except to say it requires two hands and I also had a pair of pliers handy to also use to nip the spring as I released the Mole grips and transferred it into the head! The true benefit of the Mole grip is that it is locked onto the coils and you can take as long as you need to whilst you approach/place into the casting ....no hand or finger fatigue. Once it is in place and the Mole grip released the spring will unwind outwards until it compresses against the wall of the casting. The inner hook is now not under tension and should be lying close to the centre shaft. The geometry of the inner hook may have to be adjusted so that it easily engages in the pulley base slot when you refit it.

Assuming you successfully defeat the snake and reach this stage the service manual then recommends winding the pulley, (already loaded with pull cord), three turns anticlockwise against the spring tensioner. Now thread the end of the cord through the guide hole far enough to allow the handle to be fitted.

Good luck! I'd be pleased to hear how you get on!


Peter

[CatiGull]

I have successfully reloaded springs into lawn mowers using plastic zip ties (for wiring) to secure the spring - the beauty of these is that you can nip them with a sharp cutter and pull them off when you are done. I think I left one piece of tie stuck on one, which eventually disappeared somewhere..



Wear both safety glasses and heavy gloves to protect eyes and hands resp.

[andypdq]

Success !! After another hour or so of flying springs, trapped fingers, a liberal use of expletives and even sparks at one stage, the spring is now residing in the starter housing, where it belongs, all is now well.

I forgot to mention the reason I had to do this in the first place, the spring had broken about an inch from the outer end. I wrapped a wet rag round the spring, to preserve its temper, heated the exposed end and formed a new hook.

I tried various methods of winding and holding the spring, having in mind the advice given above, thank you very much gents, I shall now reveal what ( eventually!! ) worked for me.

I used a piece of 3/4 inch ply clamped in the vice, with a nail, an inch or so from one edge. Place the spring, flat, on the ply, hook the outer end of the spring to the nail, which is the same height as the spring is deep. Using the starter pulley, hook the centre of the spring in its slot, place the pulley flat, on top of the spring and commence winding, keeping a downward pressure on the pulley, so that the spring is trapped, twixt pulley and ply and cannot escape. Now comes the fun bit! When you have wound the spring enough, slide the pulley about half way over the edge of the ply, keeping downward pressure on the pulley, you will now be able to grab the wound spring from underneath, with pliers. When you are sure you have a firm grip on the spring, carefully lift the pulley and unhook the spring from both pulley and nail. You can now place the wound spring in the starter housing. Hook the outer end to the housing, use a suitable piece of wood, edge on, across the diameter of the spring, to firmly keep it sitting flat in the housing, while you , rather nervously, release your grip on the spring. The spring will now, probably leap out of the starter housing and hit you in the face! Keep trying, "press on regardless" grit, is what it takes. When you eventually get the spring in its intended position, you may find, like I did, that you have just installed it the wrong way round, Oh Bugger!

Again,thanks for you help.

Andy

[mrdraddy]

Theres them two words again(oh bugger)must be a seagull thing
Glad you got your spring in mate

[40TPI]

If the description on the auction item below is accurate it looks as though I have an answer on what a factory machine wound spring looks like. And it looks like Stephen gets the cigar for suggesting electrical tie wraps.... !

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=005

Shame it is not in original packing...

So the working answer is a piece of plywood with a woodscrew, a few electrical tie wraps and the pulley or mole grips to wind it up...


Peter

[andypdq]

If I were doing this again, I would make a jig to prepare the spring for fitting. Take another piece of ply and draw a circle on it which is maybe an eighth of an inch smaller diameter than the spring retaining posts cast in the starter housing. Put three screws at equidistant spacing around the circumference of the circle to retain the spring. Between the screws place three cable ties, in the open position, ready to wrap round the spring. Put the wound spring in the jig, put a piece of wood across the diameter of the spring and apply downward pressure, before you release the grip from your pliers or mole grips. You should now be able to release the spring and get the ties on, sans drama!

Place the wound spring in the starter housing, apply downward pressure, across the diameter of the spring with a piece of wood, before you release the ties.

The key to this is to keep the wound spring well and truly confined at all times and be extra careful when releasing the spring into the housing. Due to the shape of the housing, this is difficult when attempting this with the wound spring just held with pliers. The ties should make it much easier.

[andypdq]

Twenty quid plus postage for a new spring, ouch!

[johnarringdale]

I am new to this forum, and to Seagull maintenance, although I owned a Seagull about 50 years ago. Faced with a displaced recoil starter spring on my newly acquired 40+ I overcame the challenge with help from the above description. I would like to offer one wrinkle on the process, which in the end made the job fairly simple. As described I clamped to the work bench one board (board A) with a wood screw near the edge. The wrinkle was to prepare another small block (board B) with several (I used 4) wood screws placed around the circumference of a 3 inch circle. A piece of 1" x 4" or 2" x 4" just 4 or 5 inches long sufficed.

Once the spring is compressed under the rope pulley and rotated carefully off the edge of board A, it can be trapped from below within the circle of screws in board B. It is then simple to gradually relieve the tension, insert several electrical ties and transfer the compressed spring to its proper location. No clamping or excessive finger strength is required.

This may be old hat to the pros, but perhaps another beginner can profit.

[Collector Inspector]

To be absolutely honest replacing springs has always been a thing of "Why Me" and "Bloody Hell" thing to do......

Yes tie them up and insert into some magical place that when released go bloody well "Twang" inside.

I remember a larger OMC that I released too early........I put the mess of a spring into a garbage bag and sent to a marine dealer mate to sort out....He was not very impressed at the time.



BnC