Flywheel numbers

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Keith.P
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by Keith.P »

The SD with a later rope pull and a later carb, the other with a later ignition and prop.
headdownarseup
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by headdownarseup »

WHOA WHOA WHOA
Back up a bit here!

Your motor pictured on the right, can you get a close up view of the serial number please. I've spotted something.

Jon
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Oyster 49
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by Oyster 49 »

It says HSD by the looks of things. Interesting.

Incidentally I have some evidence from the national archives of the large capacity gearbox being tested at the Christchurch bridging establishment. The bollard pull is measured in lbs and the standard engine is recorded at 110 lbs whilst the gearbox is shown as 120 lbs. that might explain why we have not seen any numbers of HSDs. If they were not much better than the standard engine then why bother.
Last edited by Oyster 49 on Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
headdownarseup
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by headdownarseup »

A bit more than "interesting" Adrian. :roll:
That's probably a first for many of us.

That's the very first piece of evidence i've seen to date that an HSD exists (i'll forgive what's going on down below with this one though, and a few of the peripherals)
It's not what we would expect with one of these, but as you mention why bother with the bigger gearbox if there's little difference with the conventional gearbox. I wonder if there's any more like this with a conventional gearbox? I wonder what the original prop would have looked like if it was still wearing the correct gearbox. 3 or 4 bladed prop?

I knew there would be one somewhere. :P
And here it is, at long last.

Hugo will be pleased i'm sure.

Jon
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Charles uk
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by Charles uk »

I think your missing the point of a large, big blade area prop, gentlemen!

We've also seen a Seagull document that refer to the HSD.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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Hugz
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by Hugz »

Ooooh! Piglola123, Any chance I can get the details of your SD, HSD for the registry? We are learning a lot already. Just found one in Denmark. They are everywhere!
Piglola123
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by Piglola123 »

Here are some close ups if u require more let me know I stood it next to the sd in earlier photo to use as comparison as there is height difference both turn over very easily I took pictures of the other stamps markings incase its of help I agree with Jon on originality most 70 old people I know have a few new bits added
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Piglola123
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by Piglola123 »

The engine had this canvas/cloth cover with it is this a relevant seagull cover or just something somebody has come up with over the years its very well constructed
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Charles uk
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by Charles uk »

That cover looks original or very close to, not many of those still around.

Now I can read the number, & it says HSD now perhaps the doubting Thomas's will believe that I saw a complete one many years ago, shame about the lower unit change, that serial number just raised the value by 50%!

A very very late number!
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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Oyster 49
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by Oyster 49 »

I don't think I've seen a SD series serial number in the 12000 range before.
Keith.P
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by Keith.P »

One thing I have never seen before is a 102 with a drive shaft engine mount made from aluminium or is it.
It looks different to the SD one anyway
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Hugz
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by Hugz »

Good Morning from Australia. Yes, good information to be had here. Thank you Piglola. Yes an HSD. According to Seagulls paperwork made in 1946. The engine number certainly authenticates this. I'm assuming there is a 4 after the L on the engine number? Even though the SD box is not originally from this motor it has the matching numbers to link the box and end cap together. I believe, please contradict me if I'm wrong, these were only stamped on the early A, C, AD and AC boxes. I note the nipples are on the port side which was correct for the later boxes. I also note that the tank saddles are brass which I believe correct for later SD's. I believe it may be time for those that believe that all SDs had the cast ali tank mounts to fall on their swords. I'll publish my data as soon as I reach 20 motors which shouldn't be too long. I'm still it a bit mystified why the previous registry details haven't been forwarded to me....... It must be a technical consideration I hope.

I'm actually interested in the shorter SD. Around the 3000 mark there was a change from the P series to the L series. At this point the changes made were..... cast tank mounts to brass, nipples from starboard to port, patent scripted on brass clutch lever. Piglola is there any chance we can have some close up shots of the SD please, engine # and also measurements of both drive tubes from the base of the crankcase to top of the water pump housing. Also if the clutch levers was scripted. TIA.

This is all very exciting.

I believe Jacob also has an original engine cover and "the original crated motor" had this:
1.JPG
Last edited by Hugz on Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
headdownarseup
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by headdownarseup »

I've never really been in any doubt. I always try to keep an open mind over certain things. The more we talk about this stuff, the more that other people join in with the conversation. And low and behold something pops up out of the blue like this one. Good to see, even if it's not entirely truthful to its serial number. And what a high number it is too!
Let's rewind a little bit here. We know the story about the 10,000 motors made specifically for the war effort. Supposedly this motor is one of the 10,000. Or is it? Are there any big gaps in the serial numbers? (probably)

So, the question remains to be asked. Why would the gearbox and prop have been swapped for something we've come to recognise quite well now. It almost looks quite convincing from a distance apart from a few of the peripheral components.
What does the letter H actually mean in the serial number? Great shame it hasn't got the bigger gearbox on it any more :cry:
What do we reckon on props. 3 or 4 bladed as an original for this one?

As for differences in height between the SD and HSD, let Hugo have the details of both engines and we might be able to answer a few questions along the way. If i were to take an educated guess i'd say at least one of them has been cut down in size at some point in its life.

Keith, what you're looking at there is a fairly common mounting lug from either a century or 102 (yes they're aluminium) along with a later style bracket. Nothing out of the ordinary really. All the later types seem to have a mix of ally and black plastic.

Exciting stuff eh!


Jon
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Hugz
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by Hugz »

An SD plus box sold on ebay recently attached to a dead sD. I believe it went off shore.
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Charles uk
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Re: Flywheel numbers

Post by Charles uk »

I think Keith was talking about the top of the drive shaft tube Jon.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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