TC 102 prop ?

[headdownarseup]

See what happens when we start talking about these things!

Well here's a turn up for the books..... could it be what i've been looking for all these years Questions will be asked don't worry I'm on it.
It's a bit far gone in its present condition, but you never can tell. It needs work that's for sure.
And then there's that PROP! To me it just doesn't look right for a plus sized gearbox. The hub of the prop is too small for the nose of the box for it to look right.
Any comments welcomed.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-early-se ... SwuxFYxZIT

Jon

[Oyster 49]

Early post war AHC l suspect, magneto and rope pulley seems right for that era. Let's see.. it's about an hour and a half from me on a good day.

[Charles uk]

Jon
"Hi,
I have recently bought a TC model from the local online auction site Trade Me. I'm not sure that the prop is correct as I think it should have a 3 or 4 bladed prop."

Here's the guy's question, should we really recommend a prop that didn't appear until a couple of years after his motor was built?
Perhaps the right answer should have been "yes your right a 3 or 4 bladed cloverleaf".

Doesn't the ebay example have a short water jacket & a coolie hat? which would make it an early HC or an HSD.

The grumpy schoolmaster.

[Oyster 49]

It has a short water jacket and a coolie hat magneto with small rope pulley. Of course we don't know if they left seagull with those parts fitted. The leg looks like chrome also rather than zinc dip/plate/coated.

[Charles uk]

Oyster in pic 2 the coolie hat cover (looks copper) & the base plate are both visible, cover not recessed in flywheel.

[Nudge]

Hi Nudge,
I'm in Devonport but work in Mt Eden.

Yes I am planning to go down to Karapiro on Easter Saturday to watch the action, keen to see what happens for a possible entry next year.

Cheers

Marcus

Im in beach Haven so not that far away! (only 3 hours in rush hour!!!!) 20min ~ 1/2 an hour other times!!!

I think have a clutch leaver in the shed ... If I have you can have it. I also have a 4 blade cloverleaf.

I will send you a pm with my number.

[headdownarseup]

Going back to the question in hand to props.

If we are to think of this motor leaving the factory in completely standard spec, then going by the vast majority of 102's from this era they seem to have a 4 bladed "hydrofan". Whether or not this is right, for now the data is suggesting that hydrofan props seem to be the order of the day certainly from 57/8 onwards, right around the time this 102 was made.

Now, this is where it gets tricky.
A "bowtie" prop (going by data for now) was in production from 49-55, this particular motor was made in 1958.
2 things spring to mind here; firstly the prop is from an older motor, and secondly i think the gearbox could also be from an older motor. (we'll get to that later i hope)

Following on from the "bowtie" we think there could have been a "cloverleaf" type (but not what you're thinking Chas.),PLEASE NOTE THE WORDS "COULD HAVE BEEN", but as there are too few genuine motors in existence to confirm this we can only speculate for now. There's far too many of them that have been "played with" over the years.

Moving on from the "cloverleaf" and looking into the smaller 40 series for guidance we can see there's a huge population of "hydrofan" props on all sorts of seagulls from 58 onwards. Why would the 102's be any different!
The "hydrofan" prop (in my humble opinion) i think would have been the prop this motor left the factory with when new.
2 and 3 bladed "meatcleavers" as i call them might have been regarded as an "upgrade" for those that wanted one if weed was a big problem in their area.

After a few decades and several owners getting their hands on it, who knows what could have happened to this motor over the years.
It happens...

Hope this makes sense in how i've tried to explain it.


Jon

[Charles uk]

Nothing becomes a fact until someone produces the evidence, there are plenty of dated Seagull adds out there & brochures, let's try & find the earliest mention, to settle this, thinking & guessing doesn't trump documentary evidence

When the other Charles & I were researching this, a decade & a half ago, from what I can remember we could find no mention of the Hydrofan props before the early 1960's.

Weed free props were a post hydrofan product & are recognised by their high rake blades.

Clover leaf props were a fashion that went right across the Seagull product range, pre hydrofan.

Though Oysters picture of the 2 bladed version of the 102W 3 bladed prop would tend to damage my argument that these were part of the cloverleaf series, there are plenty of these & cloverleafs about, I probably have 10.

In my first Seagull race in 1999 in Dunedin NZ, I was using a century plus & had two props with me & 4 bladed weed free & a 5 bladed hydrofan for the same revs the hydrofan was 1MPH faster, 11 & 12 MPH, that's more than 8% faster, just like it said on the tin.

Try them on a conventional style dingy & let us know if you get the same results.

[mjling]

A photo was asked for showing the water intake on the gearbox.

Thanks for all the replies. Does this provide any more clues ?

Cheers

Marcus

[headdownarseup]

It does for me any way 3 holes in a row,looks like it's from a very late pre 57 model.
Is there anything stamped into the flywheel (underneath the round cover) as this might give us a better idea on a date for you. Might help to tie certain things together with this as well.

Thanks Marcus.





I'm working on it Chas.
This stuff takes time to get right.

Jon

[mjling]

Sorry chaps, I've removed the starting sheave and the plate with "Best Outboard Motor for the World" but cant see anything on the flywheel. At this stage the flywheel is stuck fast on the shaft so have applied plenty of WD40 and will have another go over the weekend using some heat to try and release it.

I was surprised to find the coil marked "Made in Germany"

Cheers
Marcus

[headdownarseup]

Ideally it's a two handed job for removing the flywheel Marcus.

Little trick
Get yourself a ball bearing that's the right size so it will sit on the very top of the crankshaft. Place your flywheel nut back on and tighten down. (cover and rope sheave both removed for this) Better still, if you have a spare sacrificial nut that you don't care if it gets bashed then use that instead.
With a helper, get them to lift upwards on the flywheel and so taking most of the weight of the motor, while you carefully strike the nut (and not any stray fingers) A few good sharp blows should get it moving. Forget the little "tap tap tap" blows, the flywheel probably hasn't been off in ages, so there's probably going to be some corrosion on the taper which will make getting the flywheel off that much harder. Lift and hit.
Just make sure the piston is furthest away from the spark plug before you do this though. (bdc)
If possible, try not to use too much heat as there's delicate electrics underneath the flywheel.
See how you get on with it

Jon

[Charles uk]

Prufrex (Nuremberg Germany) used to make clone Villiers coils.

Matt finish on the cardboard tube not glossy like the Villiers.

[Nudge]

If you havent got that flywheel off by Sunday afternoon give me a call and I will help you get it off! As said it is a two man job. (Or a two woman job and you can sit back and watch them or should that be )