Drive shaft.

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Griffin71
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Drive shaft.

Post by Griffin71 »

One issue I have come across is the removal of the drive shaft, the base where it goes into the gearbox how does it remove :cry: :cry:
I have found a split pin which iam trying to remove, am i right in thinking this is what the drive shaft links to the drive gear on the 40 :roll:
I notice the mild steel drive shaft is quite rusty although i will shot blast it, has anyone ever made a drive shaft out of stainless steel?
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headdownarseup
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by headdownarseup »

Rust is your main problem down here.
Under normal conditions the shaft is a simple push fit onto the drive pinion. After several years at sea things will have stuck together somewhat.
The split pin you can see is from the pinion itself. Leave this alone.
If you really must remove the shaft (possibly to clean and paint) then heat is your best friend. Be carefull not to melt the impeller though, unless you plan on replacing it.

Or you could put the shaft into a vice and gently tap the gearbox assembly away from the shaft with a rubber mallet. This might take a while though unless you have a blow torch to hand to start things off.

Jon
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by Keith.P »

Replacement drive shafts don't get made, mainly because you cannot get hold of the right thickness material.
I have found a split pin which iam trying to remove
Not the right thing to remove.
But like a number 7 bus, someone will be along shortly to tell you how.
Griffin71
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by Griffin71 »

I will start with the heat and tap the gearbox away and see how I get on.
My next question is who does the pinion gear wheel remove or is that just best to leave? :oops:
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headdownarseup
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by headdownarseup »

Unless your pinion gear shaft has lots of sideways play then leave well alone. You might end up making things much worse than they are already. You will only be able to asess this properly once the drive shaft is out of the way. There will probably be a little bit of up/down play but this is normal with most of them. It's the sideways play you need to watch.
If you must delve any further then heat (and plenty of it too) will be what's needed along with a suitable drift to tap it out from the gearbox casing.
Not for the feint hearted this job, but one that can be done.

If after all this you find that your gearbox is trash then a second hand box is what you'll need. Plenty about and a lot cheaper than rebuilding a knackered one!

Keep us posted as i'm one of those that have "delved" before now.

Jon
Griffin71
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by Griffin71 »

After heating, the whole of the drive shaft and gear end came out complete inspection revealed this is in good nick I wanted to totally strip this down to individual components :lol:
However after removing the split pin and cleaning up the drive shaft base joint, I decided this maybe time to stop.
Basically I chickend out, I will replace the pin and clean the whole thing up, this brings me to another question, what grease if any to lube up the drive shaft, and what paint to use to delay the rusting? I did think about zinc spray coating :?:
Anyone have any better ideas, I note the impeller is simply held in place by being tight :lol:
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Charles uk
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by Charles uk »

Drive shafts are hardened at the ends in most cases, heating them to remove the pinion shaft might not be the best idea, as this might soften them & the end of the pinion gear.

I remove them by sliding a length of 1/4" steel down the inside, then tap the end of the bar with a hammer to drive the end of the pinion gear/ gear box out, holding them in a vice if necessary.

First though ensure that there isn't a cushion of rusty crap down the inside.

The best way to remove or replace water pump impellors is to immerse them in boiling water first.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Griffin71
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by Griffin71 »

Had a bit of a play with the drive shaft started to de rust, would like to knock the pinion gear out so will try the rod method.
I notice the end has a certain amount of free play up and down does anyone know how much this should be? or is it self adjusting when it all goes back together? :cry:
I was thinking of stripping down the engine block on this engine but the piston looks good with no carbon build up so will leave the block seems to have good compression what would be the correct compression using a tester? :roll:
Im looking forward to see if it will run, Im more used to car engines than these simple two strokers.
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Charles uk
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by Charles uk »

We can't really answer any of your questions as you haven't told us which Seagull we are talking about.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by headdownarseup »

It's a 40 series motor, correct? (going by your other posts) :P

Perhaps i can help here with at least some of your questions.

Play in the pinion bearing (up/down) is fairly typical and normal for most of the "classics" that have NON - SEALED gearboxes. I must have stripped down around 30 of these by now , big boxes, small boxes, barge pusher boxes, and a whole host of 102 boxes, all with similar findings in most of them.
Charles's explanation of how to extract the drive shaft from the top of the pinion will work too, provided you have a decent vise. Just about every drive shaft i've seen or worked on will have filled up with crud inside them. Tricky to clean out, but i use a 8mm masonary drill bit that's 2 foot long!!! I got mine from B&Q a few years back. Attack it from both ends and eventually you'll blow the crap out of it. Soak in diesel for a few days, turning each end round so it gets a chance to soak in from both ends. Re-paint and it should go for quite a few years yet. Try a marine grease, not too much, up the inside of the tube when you re-assemble the shaft to the pinion. Wont do any harm to have a smear of grease on the outside of the shaft either, every little bit helps. Just my little tip here.
Pretty much all of what you've asked so far is nothing out of the ordinary. Heat is your best friend when working on old seagulls. I'd highly recommend you get yourself a good blowtorch unless you have one already. It helps a lot with most jobs whilst working on these old things. A big bucket filled with diesel fuel will act as a pre-soak for some of the bigger parts. Alternatively you could use WD40 or similar. (i buy mine in bulk ,12 cans at a time from the wholesaler)

As a general guide for compression in a 40 series, if you get around 100psi from it that's a good'un. They'll do ok with a bit less, but aim for 100.
Some have a bit more, some have a bit less (depending on wear)

Zinc primer is a good choice for rust prevention. I use this stuff a lot combined with either spray- on hammerite or the brush-on. They both work very well for me.

As you've pretty much taken all this apart i think it would be foolish not to have a look inside the waterjacket. You never can tell what lies inside. These corrode quite badly too and can often be the cause of poor waterflow which can eventually lead to bigger problems down the road. At least this way you can be certain that you wont have missed anything along the way.

Do the job right the first time around and it should last for years.

Help is always here if you get stuck

Jon
Griffin71
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by Griffin71 »

Thanks for the info Jon.
I will take your advice and strip the top down as I have come this far, Im looking forward to getting this little 40 running and using it in anger, will just need to get the boat at some point. 8)
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tambikeboy
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by tambikeboy »

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HERE WE GO AGAIN ...cable ties and it's only Monday :lol: :evil: :evil: must phone the HOTLINE
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Keith.P
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by Keith.P »

I have been watching this thread and I'm not backing Charles on this, But what is it, it would be interesting to know, is its a forty, a forty what, a standard forty, a super forty, or a little forty ?
"It's a 40 series motor, correct? (going by your other posts) :P"
And how many times have we had to correct seagull owners, because they don't know what they have.
"Im looking forward to getting this little 40 running"
Now we know its a Little model forty, or is it ?

And all that was asked for, was some model letters.
It's supposed to be a forum, not a private dating service.
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by tambikeboy »

:twisted:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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headdownarseup
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Re: Drive shaft.

Post by headdownarseup »

:shock:
Let's wait for a serial number shall we before we get this REALLY WRONG.
But it shouldn't matter whether the gent's motor is "little" or otherwise. It still comes apart the same way, it's just nuts and bolts after all (just a tad rusted by now)


Jon
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