New Owner, 1st Post

[Bob Rocket]

I've aquired a couple of seagulls and I have some questions.

The big one is a Century circa 1971 and the little one is a Forty Minus from 1956/7.

The little one appears (to my untrained eye) completely original apart from one thumbscrew cup which is steel (and rusted), the other is bronze.
The exhaust is aluminimum (with dents that I assume weren't put in at the factory), is this likely to be the original exhaust as I see images with the chromed brass ?

HT leads - the big one has a dead HT lead with what I assume is a resistor built in (2 inch bulge near plug end), the little one's HT lead has some restance but produces spark with both motors.

Any ideas as to what the resistance range for a good lead should be, I put a straight cable (almost zero resistance) cable on the big one and have big spark just turning the rotor by hand (I haven't tried starting it with this cable)

Any help would be appreciated.

[Nudge]

Hi and welcome,

Have a look at this thread.... I have already asked the question about the HT leads!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5436

[Hugz]

The bulge is probably a suppressor. It is to cut radio interference. I think they came out in about 1978 and where recalled by BS as a disaster. I'm assuming there should be next to no resistance. It is a solid wire from one end to the other. Any unwanted resistance would be at the connections either end. This screw might be rusty. Left click on picture to expand it.

[Bob Rocket]

Cheers for the info on the HT leads, the lead on the 40minus has some resistance (I will measure it again), the century was no connection, both motors run fine with the 40minus lead.
I used a lead from a dead outboard (crescent 4hp) with the connector from the century, this shows almost no resistance and produces a fat spark (much larger than the 40minus lead) just turning the top by hand.
I haven't run it like this just in case it the lead is supposed to have some value of resistance.

The serial no. of the Silver Century is WS488E1 so manufactured in May 1971
The 40minus is SJMR4514, manufactured in 1957/58 (with a factory recondition at some point in the last 58 years

I need a motor for my old mirror dinghy and so bought this pair on ebay as non-runners.
When I got them I did a quick check, both had compression so plug out, bit of oil in the cylinders and a pull with a makeshift cord, no spark on either.

That was a few months ago, last week after reading up a bit I decided to have a look.

The 40minus was the first as it is easier to handle, the magnet didn't seem so strong so I wizzed it round for a few minutes (with a belt driven from the motor on my electric compressor as I don't have a socket big enough, the nut is about an inch and a quarter). Still no spark.

Took the top nut off, cleaned and set the points - bingo, Sparks !!!

Cleaned the carb, filters fuel line and tank.

Reassemble, hang it on the fence, put a bit of fuel in, tickle the carb, close the choke and give it a pull ... rrrrmmm it bursts into life with lots of blue smoke and spinning things...err..how do I stop it...hand on air intake and it stops...phew.

Cool, it lives.

I've tested it in a wheelie bin and it pumps plenty of water, ran for 20 minutes and switched fuel off, the motor stopped when the carb ran dry. I opened the fuel, tickled the carb, no choke and it fired straight back up first pull.

Now it needs cleaning up.

I will post some pictures when I figure out how.

The Silver Century was a bit more challenging to get running (and a lot more eventful, fortunately there is no video).

[Keith.P]

Well done, one down and one to go, or maybe more.
Cleaning the points normally gets things going.

[Bob Rocket]

The Century was a bit tougher to crack.
Lots of compression but no spark. I removed the black plastic cover, cleaned the points but when rotating the flywheel the points didn't open, tried adjusting but still no joy, flywheel has to come off.

Put nut back on, give wife big lump hammer, hold the flywheel with the motor above the grass and tell her to give it a whack.
Wife gives nut a gentle tap, 'no no, hit it hard, just the once'. Smack..flywheel loose, that was easy, wife pleased she can now remove a flywheel on a seagull.

On inspection it appears the back plate on the points is bent so I tried to straighten it and the spring flew off into the grass. I found the spring after 10 minutes of searching and reinstalled it on the now straight points.

Points back on and I can get them to open and adjust (although a new set is probably in order)
Reassemble and give it a pull, no spark hmm.

Off with the HT lead and test for continuity - nothing.
Test HT output when rotating flywheel and I can see current.
Try the HT lead from the 40minus and get a spark, excellent.

Clean the carb, lines and tank, put it all back together and bung it in the wheelie bin for testing.

Fuel in, tickle, choke and pull, nothing.
Because the motor is higher and has more compression it is a bit awkward to get a good pull.
2nd pull nothing, 3rd nothing.
4th try I give it a right good pull, motor fires up and wheelie bin falls over, through clouds of smoke I manage to right the bin and motor but how do I stop it, this carb has a cover with a gap so putting my hand over the bottom doesn't stop it, turn the throttle down and it still doesn't stop.
Rising panic, I switch the fuel off knowing that this probably isn't going to help, I would pull the plug cap off (like I do with my mower) but it is the old screwed on bakelite one from the 40.
Closing the choke with hand over the carb and it splutters to a halt.
Phew.
Try again.
Refill wheelie bin and with wife firmly holding both the bin and motor, one pull and it restarts.
Runs fine with plenty of water pumping, ran it for about 10 mins until the fuel ran out (I'd only put a bit in the tank).

The clouds of smoke on starting both of them was from the liberal amount of oil I had put in the cylinders whilst spark testing, once they had warmed up there was just a normal amount of blue 2T haze (I was a bit generous with the 2T, probably around 8 to 1).

The only thing missing from the 40minus was the fuel cap, other than that it was complete. It's very grubby, got character dents and the rust on the drive leg has blistered through the chrome, I'll be keeping this one.

The Century is missing the fuel cap (because it's now on the 40), drive spring and split pin and could use a new set of points, at some point the gearbox has been removed as there are two allen bolts holding it on and the seal doesn't look brilliant. It's also very grubby and the tank is dented (but not leaking). It was painted a delightful rotavator orange although most of that has flaked off.
I don't really have any use for this one as it is far too big for my dinghy but I'm happy that I got it to run.

[Hugz]

Sounds as though you had an enjoyable bonding session with the missus. Never heard of a wheelie bin falling over.... that's a first, well done.

[headdownarseup]

Just a "quickie" with regards to shutting down your gulls.
With the inlet cowls removed, you'll see that the throttle slides on both motors move up/down. Provided that when the throttle lever is closed off (throttle slide as far DOWN as it will go) effectively it prevents any air entering the cylinder.
Take a closer look at how the throttle cable is adjusted. Both motors will have a small adjusting barrel nut which allows you to adjust the cable for better control.


Jon

[Bob Rocket]

'Shutting down the gulls'

In theory, closing the throttle should shut them down but I was in test mode, in all probability things are tweaked as the motors are in service and along comes me, the first thing I do is clean the carb, make sure the cable is well oiled etc. but not tweak it back, hence a reduction in revs on throttle close but not shutdown. A bit of adjustment will see that right.

Stopping the 40 was easy, hand on the air compensator inlet and remove one of the three things need for ignition, engine stops.
The Century was more of a challenge, I gave it a really good pull which tipped over the bin just as it fired up so now I've got a live engine on its side in a wheelie bin with no water.
Reach for the air intake but the Century has a slot that still lets air in.
Throttle back and engine slows but doesn't stop.
Now what ?
Turn fuel off at tank but with a carb full this isn't going to help much.
Err.
Motor still running and clock ticking.
I know, choke on, flood it with fuel, cover air intake to starve it of air, motor stops...big sigh of relief.

I could probably stop the 40 by applying pressure to the flywheel at a push (a bit risky though) but the Century is a different beast altogether, once it was running I was sure to be carefull to keep fleshy bits well away from exposed spinning metal.

I will put run/kill switch on the 40 when it goes on my dinghy and a dead man switch so that when I fall overboard the boat (now perfectly balanced without me) doesn't bugger off across the Irish sea

[Bob Rocket]

Exhaust tube

The 40 has an aluminium exhaust tube, was this standard factory fit in 57/58 for this motor ?

[Keith.P]

Brass on early motors aluminium on later, It changed somewhere around the middle to late fifty's I suspect.

[Bob Rocket]

Thanks for the info, like I said above the 40minus appears to be comprised of original parts, it's in a used condition so has various knocks and scars (don't we all).
I'm currently cleaning all the bits, the tank will be laquered polished brass apart from the end caps which have dents, these will be black with only the embossed SEAGULL wording bright. Whilst this isn't the original finish I think it will look good.
The drive leg is in a poor condition, the chrome is blistering, I assume it is a chromed steel leg so it will be given a rub down and a coating of silver hamerite.
The exhaust will be given a polish with solvol autosol once a year, it makes ally look as good as stainless but won't survive the first dunking in seawater.
This motor will never look concours whilst I own it but it is not a museum piece it is a working motor and has a job to do.

I paid less than £60 for the pair and consider I got an absolute bargain.

The Silver Century will not be restored by me, I don't have any need for it nor do I have a boat capable of complementing it.
If John is interested in it then he can have it (to restore or break for spares) and I will ship it FOC considering the extensive use I have made of his resources.
If not then someone on here can have it for the shipping cost, about a tenner in the UK
I will post some pictures as soon as I work out how to get them off my phone.

[Bob Rocket]

Managed to get a picture off my phone, now to see if I can post it

Isn't the one on the left a cutie, kind of like a grubby little urchin

Isn't the one on the left a cutie, kind of like a grubby little urchin

[Bob Rocket]

Apart from the duplicate I'd say that was successful.

[Oyster 49]

I heard a story a while back that I always remember when running an engine in a wheelie bin. The chap was starting from the side where the wheels are, pullled hard and fell backwards when the bin toppled over, emptying all the water onto him Luckily the engine did not actually fire. Anyway he told me to always mount the engine on the opposite side to the wheels!