Is it possible to morph a SJP and a EFPC?

[Oyster 49]

I can help with postage as my other half works for a well known parcel courier and gets substantial discount. Let me know and we can sort it out...if you need any parts sending from the UK that might be heavy and expensive.

[mashenden]

I can help with postage as my other half works for a well known parcel courier and gets substantial discount. Let me know and we can sort it out...if you need any parts sending from the UK that might be heavy and expensive.

Wow, that is a generous offer. Thank you very much!!

As it stands right now, my old 1960's SJP block is looking like the best option. It is all cleaned up and ready for painting. It has a longer sleeve at the crank end than the one being replaced, but it still looks like it will fit. I'll post a pic once I have it painted.

If that does not work out, I will reach out to you. Thanks again.

[mashenden]

Sorry for all of the questions about what fits what, some of them seemingly redundant, but I could use some more insight, this time in regards to the ignition.

The plate and flywheel on the left was obtained when I thought I would resurrect the old SJP (the original magneto was shot). The plate with the CDI and smaller flywheel on the right is from the EFPC.

It doesn't seem like the CDI would work with the old plate and flywheel, right? The mounts are in the wrong places and it would be too far from the flywheel to sense the rotation.

Assuming the CDI is not usable with the old flywheel, I guess that means I will need to put the old plate with points on her if I want the old flywheel look. I remember someone making a comment about possibly not having a timing recess - I did not follow what that was about.

Any advise would be appreciated.


Matt A

[Oyster 49]

I've never owned a CDI seagull, but my understanding is you will need to swap the job lot over, and you cannot mix and match. However, the wipac ignition on a seagul is known for being reliable. you say it is shot, what's up with it? you could always get a replacement wipac coil if needs be, not particularly expensive.

[Horsley-Anarak]

The ignition on the left is a Wipac MK2 (bronze flywheel)

That will work fine. if you are using the EFPC crankcase there may not be a hole to locate the magneto base.

These are Silver Century crankcases, the one on the left has the locating hole.

If you are using the SJP crankcase it will have the locating hole, so that will set your timing.

If not looking at the top of the flywheel with the fuel tank furthest away from you, and the transom bracket nearest you.
The ht outlet from the magneto base should be at the 8 o'clock position.

H-A

[Charles uk]

There's a lot of valuable information in that answer H-A, nice one!

[mashenden]

Indeed - all kinds of good info.

To clarify something on oyster's response, the original ignition that came on the SJP is not pictured (and is a different style as well - three spokes, not two). That is the one that is shot. A bad mag - an open when measuring the resistance of the coil. The one pictured on the left was purchased as a replacement a few years back, but then life happened and everything sat until recent times. Wife said I need to clean up the garage - I took that to mean I needed to get the Seagull(s) working so I can pack up what is not used. Hence my recent efforts.

I am glad to hear the one pictured on the left is a pretty reputable option. While I will be using the SJP's block (and the ignition with points), I'll be using the EFPC's crankcase since it looks very, very clean. It does have a timing hole. Yeay!!

So are there other CDI units that do work with the older flywheels or do people convert to the smaller flywheel when going with a CDI replacement?

[Charles uk]

All of the 5 different Seagull ignitions have their own flywheel types, non of which are interchangeable!

[Horsley-Anarak]

So are there other CDI units that do work with the older flywheels or do people convert to the smaller flywheel when going with a CDI replacement?

British seagull CDi units work with the small flywheel only.

There are two different types, white and black/brown. Each use their own unique flywheel, one has a groove round the outside the other is smooth.

The SJP ignition would be the flat top villiers one, silver flywheel, you can replace the coil in these, cost is about £55.

I would get it all up and running with the Wipac Bronze flywheel ignition, they are simple and loads of bits about.

You can always refurbish the villiers one at a later date with a new coil. Nicer flywheel as you can polish it up.

Keep hold of the CDi set up as they are worth a few quid, you could always sell or swap it for something else.

That engine should soon be running.

H-A

[mashenden]

Awesome - I am on the right track, then.

Here is the latest plan for my Frankengull:

• Lower unit, crankcase, and bracket - using the EFPC
• Block - from SJP (EFPC's was cracked)
• Head - not 100% sure. The one from the EFPC is clean and uses hex bolts but had some sparkplug thread issues in its past. Looks like a Heli coil was put in. The one from the SJP is more used, and is configured for the flat blade bolts (not a fan), but the plug threads look good.
• Carb - not sure yet. I have the old one from the SJP and the newer one from the EFPC. Any gut feel on which would be the better one? (I'll provide more specifics about each if it is not apparent by the ages: 1960 vs 1981)
• Ignition - the Wipac MK2 (I want to stay with the traditional flywheel look)
• Tank - from SJP (brass, which is in keeping with the traditional look)
• Tiller - from EFPC

I'll be keeping all parts for the EFPC (except the cracked block) so I can return it to its original configuration if I ever want to.

[Horsley-Anarak]

Helicoil was factory fit, I would use that heads with the bolts not the cross heads.

I find that forty plus engines with the villiers carb start better. Also you can tune them by adjusting the needle.

You may want to convert it to the 25:1 needle, to cut down on the smoke.

The Amal carb is OK but I feel is better suited to the larger motors.

H-A

P.S. Use the old copper head gasket, but clean it first then anneal it, heat to cherry red and quench.
assemble with a thin smear of hight temp gas goop. Seagull used RTV during assembly.

P.P.S. Make sure the crankcase halves are dead flat on their mating surfaces before assemble, 600grit wet and dry paper on a granite work top does the trick, use a circular motion.

[mashenden]

Helicoil was factory fit, I would use that heads with the bolts not the cross heads.

I find that forty plus engines with the villiers carb start better. Also you can tune them by adjusting the needle.

You may want to convert it to the 25:1 needle, to cut down on the smoke.

The Amal carb is OK but I feel is better suited to the larger motors.

H-A

P.S. Use the old copper head gasket, but clean it first then anneal it, heat to cherry red and quench.
assemble with a thin smear of hight temp gas goop. Seagull used RTV during assembly.

P.P.S. Make sure the crankcase halves are dead flat on their mating surfaces before assemble, 600grit wet and dry paper on a granite work top does the trick, use a circular motion.

Starting better is a good thing. I'll give the Villiers a try.

When you say "old gasket", I have an old one that still has a copper look to it and is fairly flexible, and a very old gasket that looks more like steel and is very stiff. Any idea which is the better of the two?

[Horsley-Anarak]

When you say "old gasket", I have an old one that still has a copper look to it and is fairly flexible, and a very old gasket that looks more like steel and is very stiff. Any idea which is the better of the two?[/quote]

Now would be a good time for more pictures.

Can you show us the cylinder from the SJP and the heads, gaskets, mating surfaces.

I would feel that the copper one is the one to use, unless I am missing something.

H-A

[mashenden]

Now would be a good time for more pictures.

Can you show us the cylinder from the SJP and the heads, gaskets, mating surfaces.

I would feel that the copper one is the one to use, unless I am missing something.

H-A

Will do, but I will not be back to the house until Monday. To be concise, I am not saying the older one IS steel, just that it is a dark color, not a cooper color, and is much stiffer than the one that was on the EFPC. Did they ever use something other than cooper for the head gasket?

[Horsley-Anarak]

They did use a steel gasket on the littlr 40 motors, not sure about the SJP.

Hold a magnet on it to see if it is steel.

Seagull sell a gasket set for the 40 series motors including the SJP, and that has a copper head gasket.

H-A