By deduction the water jackets on this TC-102 are clogged beyond any pressurised air or pressurised water I can get through it. There is a good flow through water pump (as expected) but very little between going up the silencer tube and coming out the top of the round head. There is nearly no flow of even blowing air. The guy I just bought it from said - "There's not as much water flow as I would like". Well, there ain't NONE. So what to do?
Is it cleanable through welsh plugs without dissembly?
Should I take off the exhaust tube and check inside at the pipe union there first?
Or is it off with the head and into the jackets with wire and descaling solution?
Thanks in advance.
TC-102 cylinder and head descaling methodology please
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
Hi, you are in trouble with this motor, it seames like waterways have been blocked, and by what ? salt/rust/mud or what else?.
In my younger days when I was living of reparing boatmotors, I got an advice, for this problem, put some Coca Cola in, it will help, and it did, but that was on alu motors. You can get some liquid rust "remover" which will stay in for a few minutes, and then should be flushed with a lot of water.
I dont know the english name, but in Danmark it is sold together with building materials. If you try it, and it works, do put a lilttle thin oil in for safety.
Those days I never laid hands on a Seagull , I think for 2 reasons, they were not so old at that time, and there were not so many here.
In my younger days when I was living of reparing boatmotors, I got an advice, for this problem, put some Coca Cola in, it will help, and it did, but that was on alu motors. You can get some liquid rust "remover" which will stay in for a few minutes, and then should be flushed with a lot of water.
I dont know the english name, but in Danmark it is sold together with building materials. If you try it, and it works, do put a lilttle thin oil in for safety.
Those days I never laid hands on a Seagull , I think for 2 reasons, they were not so old at that time, and there were not so many here.
Last edited by erik0905 on Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Progess Report:
Got tank off, then the engine off the transmission. Exhaust came off very easily. Water inlet pipe was on well, but after removing it, I found the outlet point at the bottom of head (and later on the inside of the jackets)was chock-a-block with rust. Removed the top and bottom water outlet banjos and poked around for an hour, releasing MUCH rust. Flushed out with high pressure water. Filled with vinegar - as the shop was closed for any stronger acid. Left soak 1 hour. Poked around again and flushed again. Repeated vinegar, soaking, poking and rinsing to get fully clear jackets and massive water flow from the tap! Will do reassembly tomorrow after I buy a few gasgets and washers to seal it all up again. In the end, no big dramas.
General Comment:
The head on those things has heaps of "meat" in the walls, so I'm not worried about all the rust that came out. Big bits too - like gravel! Aaah! My (amateur) criticism of the design is that the water inlet banjo to the head at this point from the 1/4' copper pipe up the inside fo the exhaust is only a 4-5 mm hole, and this area becomes "a sump" for all the rust in the head upon stopping the engine, after which it will dry out, coagulate and be a stuck lump at next start up. I don;t belivethe water pump could dislodge this by its own pressure. And back flushing wouldn't clear this messy junction point as that would only force the packed rust tighter into the small hole. I would like to see the banjo to pipe hole larger at this point, and may make that mod myself at some future point.
To be Continued ......
Got tank off, then the engine off the transmission. Exhaust came off very easily. Water inlet pipe was on well, but after removing it, I found the outlet point at the bottom of head (and later on the inside of the jackets)was chock-a-block with rust. Removed the top and bottom water outlet banjos and poked around for an hour, releasing MUCH rust. Flushed out with high pressure water. Filled with vinegar - as the shop was closed for any stronger acid. Left soak 1 hour. Poked around again and flushed again. Repeated vinegar, soaking, poking and rinsing to get fully clear jackets and massive water flow from the tap! Will do reassembly tomorrow after I buy a few gasgets and washers to seal it all up again. In the end, no big dramas.
General Comment:
The head on those things has heaps of "meat" in the walls, so I'm not worried about all the rust that came out. Big bits too - like gravel! Aaah! My (amateur) criticism of the design is that the water inlet banjo to the head at this point from the 1/4' copper pipe up the inside fo the exhaust is only a 4-5 mm hole, and this area becomes "a sump" for all the rust in the head upon stopping the engine, after which it will dry out, coagulate and be a stuck lump at next start up. I don;t belivethe water pump could dislodge this by its own pressure. And back flushing wouldn't clear this messy junction point as that would only force the packed rust tighter into the small hole. I would like to see the banjo to pipe hole larger at this point, and may make that mod myself at some future point.
To be Continued ......
I wouldn't worry about making the mod.
the main and only reason for this problem was the motor wasn't flushed properly in the first place.
My 102 is a 1942 model very original and always flushed properly, it still gets a lot of regular use with the latest run being 5 hours.
The original seagull design for the cooling of the 102's is very efficient
but it all needs maintenance for reliabilty,
the seagull is an extremely reliable motor if it is looked after and the 102's I think are the best design for cooling.
the main and only reason for this problem was the motor wasn't flushed properly in the first place.
My 102 is a 1942 model very original and always flushed properly, it still gets a lot of regular use with the latest run being 5 hours.
The original seagull design for the cooling of the 102's is very efficient
but it all needs maintenance for reliabilty,
the seagull is an extremely reliable motor if it is looked after and the 102's I think are the best design for cooling.
Hi Chris.
Yeah the mod may be superfluopus as you say, because (i) I will only be motoring on fresh water - The Colo and Hawkesbury Rivers as far downstream as Wisemans Ferry (if you know it), and (ii) I will be a meticulous flusher anyway - the main probs up here are weeds of many sizes and styles and sand in the shallow reaches - not to mention the plastic bags!
Can you help me identify the year of my motor? It only has TC on the block, no more dating details. 102s were from 1956 to 1967 - correct???
It has the brass tiller, which I believe indicates "early model"
Round brass tank
4 blade prop which is now 9 and a 1/4" diam
Villiers Mk 1 ignition
Amal 46N two jet carb. Can't know yet if it has been 10 > 25:1 converted until I get the main jet out. The previous owner said he ran it on 25:1 (without knowing why) but that may be either correct for the carbie or a false assumption.
Ah Ha. The plot thickens. I have just had a another, even closer look for the serial number and, beyond the "TC" on the casing, the metal has been very carefully ground flat and very neatly repolished. My motor is HOT, STOLEN!
Enjoy the million dollar views around Contarf mate! I used to sail all around that area in my childhood from Sailors Bay.
Swami.
Yeah the mod may be superfluopus as you say, because (i) I will only be motoring on fresh water - The Colo and Hawkesbury Rivers as far downstream as Wisemans Ferry (if you know it), and (ii) I will be a meticulous flusher anyway - the main probs up here are weeds of many sizes and styles and sand in the shallow reaches - not to mention the plastic bags!
Can you help me identify the year of my motor? It only has TC on the block, no more dating details. 102s were from 1956 to 1967 - correct???
It has the brass tiller, which I believe indicates "early model"
Round brass tank
4 blade prop which is now 9 and a 1/4" diam
Villiers Mk 1 ignition
Amal 46N two jet carb. Can't know yet if it has been 10 > 25:1 converted until I get the main jet out. The previous owner said he ran it on 25:1 (without knowing why) but that may be either correct for the carbie or a false assumption.
Ah Ha. The plot thickens. I have just had a another, even closer look for the serial number and, beyond the "TC" on the casing, the metal has been very carefully ground flat and very neatly repolished. My motor is HOT, STOLEN!
Enjoy the million dollar views around Contarf mate! I used to sail all around that area in my childhood from Sailors Bay.
Swami.
Not necessarily hot, or stolen. At some time in its history the crankcase lower half may well have been replaced with one from another motor. Maybe it cracked, maybe the tiller lug snapped off. Whoever did it ground off the numbers for the best of reasons.
Around here there are quite a few motors with no serial number at all, and I have always been told that's because of a replacement crankcase. There is always the possibility, however, that few escaped rom the back door of the factory!
Good luck with your 102, have fun
Around here there are quite a few motors with no serial number at all, and I have always been told that's because of a replacement crankcase. There is always the possibility, however, that few escaped rom the back door of the factory!
Good luck with your 102, have fun