oil leak

[Mike Killay]

I recently bought a 45 featherweight. It is in good condition but cobwebbed over the years in a shed.
Got it running fine.
I opened the gearbox to find it absolutely dry, so I refilled it, not overflowing!
After using the motor, I laid it down on the car boot and about an egg cup full of gearbox oil and water ran out of what seemed to be the water inlet.
I laid the motor 'face down' in the garage and removed the gearbox cover, there was plenty of oil in there, some ran over. Anyway, suspecting a leak between the box and the leg, I left her there all night, no leak!
Should I be concerned?

[Oyster 49]

I would not be too concerned, the gearbox oil will be leaking upward the drive shaft whilst the engine is lying down, if you get my drift. Later engines have a seal to help reduce water getting in and oil getting out. The drive shaft could be a little worn too.

What oil are you using, if using 90 grade try using a thicker one, which may help.

[Mike Killay]

Thanks Oyster.
What happened was that my fuel tank cap was leaking, so I bought a new kit for it and to test it, held the engine upside down as I have sometimes done with my Mariner 2hp.
I guess that this encouraged a leak that normally would not happen.
I am using 90 oil as recommended, but may change to 140.
The engine has lain on all of its sides since the leak with no repetition, so, I am happy at the moment to leave it as it is.
This is my first Seagull and I am delighted with it. It starts on second pull and runs well/ Most importantly, there is a lot of back up and spares unlike Mariner/ Mercury engines.

[Vic]

ITYWF that SAE140 oil is the correct oil for non sealed gearboxes ( ie ones without oil seals ) From about 1978 sealed gear boxes were fitted. These use SAE 90.

[Gannet]

I wouldn't worry about overfilling the gearbox.
In fact the instruction from British Seagull for the earlier model was to lay the engine down horizontally and fill it right up.
This seems to me a better and more reliable method. The oil capacity of these small gearboxes is very small (65cc ish), so leakage whilst in use can sometimes be a problem.
My advice is to fill it right up.
After you have used it, drain the oil to determine the leakage rate. If the oil (which is an emulsion at this stage) is a yellow custard colour thats just fine and correct. If water comes out and some grey looking stuff, then you know that you should run it for a shorter period before checking it and certainly don't store it in that state.
Hope that helps.
Jeremy

[Vic]

I wouldn't worry about overfilling the gearbox.
In fact the instruction from British Seagull for the earlier model was to lay the engine down horizontally and fill it right up.
This seems to me a better and more reliable method. The oil capacity of these small gearboxes is very small (65cc ish), so leakage whilst in use can sometimes be a problem.
My advice is to fill it right up.
After you have used it, drain the oil to determine the leakage rate. If the oil (which is an emulsion at this stage) is a yellow custard colour thats just fine and correct. If water comes out and some grey looking stuff, then you know that you should run it for a shorter period before checking it and certainly don't store it in that state.
Hope that helps.
Jeremy

My hand books from the 1970s say to fill to a little below the bottom of the filler plug hole . . . DO NOT OVERFILL . . . leave a little air.

( this is with the engine lying horizontally . . . tank downwards )

[Gannet]

Thanks Vic,
I may have been mistaken in the general advice given about gearbox filling. I have thought that the more reecent advice, and as given in the main SOS site under FAQ; specifies filling with oil when the unit is vertical and with the plug hole acting as a level. However you indicate that horizontally is specified.

There is an interesting point you make about (on a horizontal fill) about leaving a lttle air. I guess if it is filled right up and the plug is screwed in quickly, there might be a risk in over pressurising the gearbox. I think this is unlikely.
I take a view that screwing the plug in when its brim full, pushes the oil up aound the shafts, displacing any rust inducing water and lubricates it for the next start.

I think all this is relevant to the small gearbox. I have seen too many rusty, damaged gears and ruined worn bearings caused by lack of oil in these gearboxes.

Jeremy

[Vic]

You are not mistaken .

The original instructions ( at least in 1974 ) were to fill with it lying down but to leave a small air space. Not to fill completely as suggested by Gannet. These are what I quoted above

The more recent, and current, recommendations are to fill it so that when upright the oil comes up to the bottom of the filler hole. Not a lot of oil in a Featherweight gearbox if you do that!

I have no idea why the change was made

[Mike Killay]

Could the different filling instructions reflect sealed and non sealed gear boxes?
My engine, EF 195 BB3 appears to be a 1983 model with a stamping error for the double B. It does not have a sealed gearbox, so perhaps I should use sae 140 oil.
With an unsealed box, I cannot see that overfilling and subsequent expansion would cause any problem.

[Charles uk]

Your quite correct non of the EF series of Featherweights were fitted with a Sealed gearbox, as production of the EF didn't start until 1985.

All the Seagull owners handbook state that the motor should be upright & that in this position the oil level should level with the bottom of the oil filler cap & that the oil should be SAE 140, if the quantity of oil makes you nervous, renew the oil every time you use the motor, in this gearbox a litre of lube will still keep you going for a long time.

[Vic]

All the Seagull owners handbook state that the motor should be upright & that in this position the oil level should level with the bottom of the oil filler cap

Mine dont ! They say what I quoted above.

I would be interesting to know why it was changed

[Gannet]

Yes, the 'Operating Instructions' (14th edition) for the Little Model Forty states:-

'Lay the engine on the floor with the tank downwards, remove the plug and fill to overflowing.'

Jeremy

[Mike Killay]

I spoke to John at SOS re the odd number of my engine. His suggestion was that it is a 1983 model and the man stamping the number made an error.
The number shown is
EF 195 BB3
John thinks it should be
EF 195 B3

[Vic]

Yes, the 'Operating Instructions' (14th edition) for the Little Model Forty states:-

'Lay the engine on the floor with the tank downwards, remove the plug and fill to overflowing.'

Jeremy

Changed it to , "DO NOT OVERFILL . . . leave a little air" by the 25th edition in 1973 then.

I suppose we should accept that the latest and current recommendation to fill to the filler hole while upright is what we should be doing.

[Charles uk]

It can't be 1983 as they didn't start production of that model until 1985.

The undated handbook for the model 45 with the un sealed lower unit shows a sketch of a gearbox with oil up to the bottom of the filler plug.