It was the first of the Century 100 series.
Square block, 102cc, Villiers carb.
Auxiliary engine
Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo
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Charles uk
- Posts: 4954
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
- Location: Maidenhead Berks UK
Re: Auxiliary engine
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Re: Auxiliary engine
Seasonal Greetings!
Keith, the LS wasn't a sealed cylinder design. It was basically a longer stroke version of the FVP, with different tank mountings.
Charles, why assume that there was a proper continual single system for the allocation of the ident letters? Where is the documentation to support that theory of yours?
Most manufactures change their identification/numbering procedure quite frequently. BS being no different. Additionally it is very common for the sales/marketing dept to use a different ident/name to that ued by the design dept. Again BS being an example of this, with plenty (most?) of sales documents making no reference to the letter prefix stamped on tne engines.
As regards F, FV and FVP, that is now well established with some very valid suggestion from Charles P. F stood for 40cc. The V was added to signify the Villers carb. The P stood for the 'plus' gearbox. All quite straight forward and simple. Not a very logical system, but good enough at tne time. BS clearly didn't set out at that stage to produce an ident system to cover all future models!!
My suggestions of the reasons for the LS and the SJM/SJP are just that -sensible and valid suggestions. Just because latter models might have been given prefixes for different reasons, does not invalidate my suggestion.
Jeremy
Keith, the LS wasn't a sealed cylinder design. It was basically a longer stroke version of the FVP, with different tank mountings.
Charles, why assume that there was a proper continual single system for the allocation of the ident letters? Where is the documentation to support that theory of yours?
Most manufactures change their identification/numbering procedure quite frequently. BS being no different. Additionally it is very common for the sales/marketing dept to use a different ident/name to that ued by the design dept. Again BS being an example of this, with plenty (most?) of sales documents making no reference to the letter prefix stamped on tne engines.
As regards F, FV and FVP, that is now well established with some very valid suggestion from Charles P. F stood for 40cc. The V was added to signify the Villers carb. The P stood for the 'plus' gearbox. All quite straight forward and simple. Not a very logical system, but good enough at tne time. BS clearly didn't set out at that stage to produce an ident system to cover all future models!!
My suggestions of the reasons for the LS and the SJM/SJP are just that -sensible and valid suggestions. Just because latter models might have been given prefixes for different reasons, does not invalidate my suggestion.
Jeremy
Re: Auxiliary engine
I think Jeremy has a point here, and an interesting theory. I wonder what Charles P thinks as he has spoken to many ex seagull employees in his search for information.
Re: Auxiliary engine
The "F" for "Forty is an easy one as British Seagull were already referring to their "Little Model Forty" in advertisements and brochures.
Jeremy's suggestion for "LS" isn't a bad one, I've heard "Little Seagull" too.
and I've heard the "Junior" bit, too.
They are all valid guesses. One day some sort of evidence may appear, we may all be wrong!
Jeremy's suggestion for "LS" isn't a bad one, I've heard "Little Seagull" too.
and I've heard the "Junior" bit, too.
They are all valid guesses. One day some sort of evidence may appear, we may all be wrong!
Re: Auxiliary engine
They are indeed just suggestions, nothing more than idle speculation.
Although the suggestion is driven a little bit by my background in mechanical design/development. We each bring a different angle to problems, depending on our background.
The significant change in the design of the LS was the Longer Stroke.
The significant change in the design of the SJM/SJP was the Sealed Jacket for the cooling water.
I think that there can be no doubt the 'P' stood for Plus and the 'M' stood for Minus in respect of the gearboxes.
As you say Charles, one day evidence might appear. Although I am inclined to think that with all the research that you have carried out, it will be surprising if documents suddenly came to light now. But. who knows?
While the weather makes life a bit difficult in cold workshops, to speculate and guess on the ident system seems a good way to spend our time!
Jeremy
Although the suggestion is driven a little bit by my background in mechanical design/development. We each bring a different angle to problems, depending on our background.
The significant change in the design of the LS was the Longer Stroke.
The significant change in the design of the SJM/SJP was the Sealed Jacket for the cooling water.
I think that there can be no doubt the 'P' stood for Plus and the 'M' stood for Minus in respect of the gearboxes.
As you say Charles, one day evidence might appear. Although I am inclined to think that with all the research that you have carried out, it will be surprising if documents suddenly came to light now. But. who knows?
While the weather makes life a bit difficult in cold workshops, to speculate and guess on the ident system seems a good way to spend our time!
Jeremy
Re: Auxiliary engine
One thing that surprises me is the lack of any reference to the new features in adverts of the day. Normally a redesigned version of an existing product is then marketed as a new and upgraded version, and adverts show off the the improvements.
I have not seen anything like that. Has anyone else?
I have not seen anything like that. Has anyone else?
Re: Auxiliary engine
I have seen a picture of an oval tank early forty, not a little forty, as it had an oval, not a canted or round tank, but the cylinder head was smooth and finless, it was on some advertisement if I remember correctly.
Re: Auxiliary engine
Here is a new model:Oyster 49 wrote:One thing that surprises me is the lack of any reference to the new features in adverts of the day. Normally a redesigned version of an existing product is then marketed as a new and upgraded version, and adverts show off the the improvements. I have not seen anything like that. Has anyone else?
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Charles uk
- Posts: 4954
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
- Location: Maidenhead Berks UK
Re: Auxiliary engine
Hugo you've just illustrated a very good source of Seagull paperwork, Boating Mags adds & articles, not expensive if a photocopy is good enough.
I have a drawer full of copies of Marston adds & articles, it just takes several hours searching the publishers archives & searching through old magazines at boat jumbles.
That will be English artwork, so would have been used here.
I have a drawer full of copies of Marston adds & articles, it just takes several hours searching the publishers archives & searching through old magazines at boat jumbles.
That will be English artwork, so would have been used here.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Re: Auxiliary engine
I can access "Yachting Monthly" 1953 - Present at my state library.
But the library doesn't have "Yachting monthly and motor cruising" (London, England : 1945)
What other publications are there so I can check the library catalogue?
As it is an English publication I was hoping somebody over there would peruse and photo the adverts and articles. Failing that I can spend a few days checking say from 1953 to 1963. I lose interest after that
A camera is easier than a photocopier. No fees either.
Wont be for a few months at least. Sydney's Summer is way to great to spend in a library.
But the library doesn't have "Yachting monthly and motor cruising" (London, England : 1945)
What other publications are there so I can check the library catalogue?
As it is an English publication I was hoping somebody over there would peruse and photo the adverts and articles. Failing that I can spend a few days checking say from 1953 to 1963. I lose interest after that
A camera is easier than a photocopier. No fees either.
Wont be for a few months at least. Sydney's Summer is way to great to spend in a library.
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Charles uk
- Posts: 4954
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
- Location: Maidenhead Berks UK
Re: Auxiliary engine
I've got a copy of "The Yachting World and Motor Boating Journal" 1935, I don't know if was around post war, but it did carry adds & articles on outboard motors.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
Re: Auxiliary engine
My library doesn't have that but has Yachting World Annual 1951/52, 55, 58.
Publisher
London : Iliffe, 1951-
New thread?
Publisher
London : Iliffe, 1951-
New thread?
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NaughtyBits
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:30 pm
- Location: Bermuda
Re: Auxiliary engine
"The silence is broken just enough to let you know that the 'Seagull' is doing it's job"
Well, there goes any hope of those advertisements providing any factual info..!
Seasons greetings from Bermuda, all. Hope you're all having a good one.
Well, there goes any hope of those advertisements providing any factual info..!
Seasons greetings from Bermuda, all. Hope you're all having a good one.
Re: Auxiliary engine
Cicadas.... we have very loud cicadas
Actually they sound like my old transit van with a loose fan belt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQwlv9c ... Edz5Qx0Otg
Actually they sound like my old transit van with a loose fan belt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQwlv9c ... Edz5Qx0Otg
Re: Auxiliary engine
All interesting stuff - isn't it typical how these posts turn into conversations, drifting well away from the starting topic, but sometimes all the better for that.
To drift further away, l would like to pick up on the very non factual claim:-
"The silence is broken just enough to let you know that the 'Seagull' is doing it's job"
I am completely biased with anything to do with these Early Forty Series, but are they not the quietest of Seagull engines? The above claim is a bit fanciful, but by comparison to all others they are very quiet.
Has that got a lot to do with the smallness of the single small hole in the exhaust pipe? If so, what are the advantages of the larger size and the two holes, that later Forty models have? I expect that the early brass tube material might help in noise reduction compared with the later aluminium material.
I have found them quiet - although comparison with cicadas in South Devon, UK is a bit difficult - but I can hear every instruction my wife is giving me as we quietly motor along. Isn't that advantage priceless!
As to the 2 hours running on a quarter of a (UK) gallon - well just possibly so on a very low throttle opening. But typical consumption is nearly double!
Jeremy
To drift further away, l would like to pick up on the very non factual claim:-
"The silence is broken just enough to let you know that the 'Seagull' is doing it's job"
I am completely biased with anything to do with these Early Forty Series, but are they not the quietest of Seagull engines? The above claim is a bit fanciful, but by comparison to all others they are very quiet.
Has that got a lot to do with the smallness of the single small hole in the exhaust pipe? If so, what are the advantages of the larger size and the two holes, that later Forty models have? I expect that the early brass tube material might help in noise reduction compared with the later aluminium material.
I have found them quiet - although comparison with cicadas in South Devon, UK is a bit difficult - but I can hear every instruction my wife is giving me as we quietly motor along. Isn't that advantage priceless!
As to the 2 hours running on a quarter of a (UK) gallon - well just possibly so on a very low throttle opening. But typical consumption is nearly double!
Jeremy