another novice's tale

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silverbaby
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by silverbaby » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:04 pm

OK Keith, sorry - you were referring me to the pic previously posted. Thanks for the advice on which screw to go at, which is what I was after. Have reassembled for now but will go back to points and try again if plug change does not work ...

Keith.P
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by Keith.P » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:11 pm

You should be able to work on the point without removing the points, a little fiddly.
The Champion com8 has been around sometime, and do last for years, give it a clean plug in HT lead hold plug against the head and give flywheel a small spin.
A basic multimeter test would point you in the right direction, if you are still having problems.

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1650bullet
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by 1650bullet » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:17 am

You dont have to put the thin cover back on to do a test run in the wheelie bin or what ever sought of tank you use. Just mount the rope pulley and dome nut back on and you could even leave the plug out and short out the end of the high tension lead and spin the flywheel around to see if you have a spark. A quick and effective way to adjust the points is to turn the engine and put the end of a pen in the spark plug hole and turn until the piston has reached tdc (top of piston as close to the end of plug hole) Once youve done that the points should be open and then check the point gap. But do this if your motor wont run. The methods ive told you are just a crude and basic get to run way of seeing if its a runner.

Keith.P
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by Keith.P » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:07 am

You don't have to put the thin cover back on to do a test run in the wheelie bin
Not exactly what I would tell a complete novice to do, just for the sake of one nut.

silverbaby
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by silverbaby » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:10 pm

Thanks fellas. I do follow what you have both said. Have had to put the project on ice for a few days, though. Will report later.

silverbaby
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lates on another novice's tale

Post by silverbaby » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:10 pm

OK, just musing to myself on progress so far, but grateful if anyone has the patience to read in and comment.

There is obviously nothing like learning by practice and most of you guys are a long way ahead of me in that. I'm attempting to teach myself in by reading, and there are always gaps between the words when experts are trying to explain to novices, but maybe we can fill some of those in for future reference?

I've looked at the points in the Villiers ignition system on my 40 Series Seagull, dating from 62-63 (serial no. sjp 32837). Cleaning, I could manage. Adjustment, I loosened the big screws but couldn't work out how to lever the plate to move it. Turned a little screw and that seemed to move it? Gap passed the bit-of-cardboard test so I tightened it all up again. Tried to check gap with piston at high point but points were then obscured by one of the vanes in the top of the flywheel and I ended up assuming a fraction either way would do - should be close enough to get some sort of spark, if not optimum?? Still no spark at the points when I turn the wheel, though, let alone at the plug end.

Used a basic multimeter and followed instructions to check coil. This meant getting access to the hole where the HT lead plugs in - got led astray into trying screwdrivers at first, because cross-mark on the connection looked like a plastic screw head, but I learn that it is just there to take wire retaining clip, and the connection simply levers out. Spring-loaded connection on HT end looks okay. Got a fairly positive ohm reading at that end of the coil and a smaller one at the other end, which I guess is about right, although I've no idea how to read the readings. Also used multimeter to check for a circuit through HT lead, which looks sound enough. Don't like to throw it away un-necessarily and at the moment, the problem seems to be earlier in the system? Got a new spark plug in, though, because the old Champion D8 had a badly bent terminal and I wasn't sure it was positioned right even when I bent it back.

Now, if I am following all the advice right, the next step is to try whizzing the flywheel round with a drill, to put some sort of charge into somewhere. I need to get hold of a socket to fit the big head nut?

I would like to understand what I am doing here. The flywheel runs magnets past magnets to set up a charge in the coil? There is a circuit between one end of the coil and the points and when the points open, the current builds up and sparks across the gap and somehow gets back throught the coil to the high-tension lead? I would like to fill in the gaps here if anyone would like to help. Meanwhile, I think my neighbour has a socket set ...

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skyetoyman
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by skyetoyman » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:49 pm

DO NOT wizz anything round with a drill. Other thing to try first. NEVER wizz round with a drill.
LLS c 1961 on a crescent 42 boat c 1980 + wspcl c 1976 + 102 SD8561 c 1944 + 102 ACR 1948

silverbaby
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by silverbaby » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:03 pm

OK. Respects to any Skye man on boating matters and love to Glendale, where I once spent a very happy holiday. What else do I try first?

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1650bullet
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Re: lates on another novice's tale

Post by 1650bullet » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:59 am

silverbaby wrote:OK, just musing to myself on progress so far, but grateful if anyone has the patience to read in and comment.

There is obviously nothing like learning by practice and most of you guys are a long way ahead of me in that. I'm attempting to teach myself in by reading, and there are always gaps between the words when experts are trying to explain to novices, but maybe we can fill some of those in for future reference?

I've looked at the points in the Villiers ignition system on my 40 Series Seagull, dating from 62-63 (serial no. sjp 32837). Cleaning, I could manage. Adjustment, I loosened the big screws but couldn't work out how to lever the plate to move it. Turned a little screw and that seemed to move it? Gap passed the bit-of-cardboard test so I tightened it all up again. Tried to check gap with piston at high point but points were then obscured by one of the vanes in the top of the flywheel and I ended up assuming a fraction either way would do - should be close enough to get some sort of spark, if not optimum?? Still no spark at the points when I turn the wheel, though, let alone at the plug end.

Used a basic multimeter and followed instructions to check coil. This meant getting access to the hole where the HT lead plugs in - got led astray into trying screwdrivers at first, because cross-mark on the connection looked like a plastic screw head, but I learn that it is just there to take wire retaining clip, and the connection simply levers out. Spring-loaded connection on HT end looks okay. Got a fairly positive ohm reading at that end of the coil and a smaller one at the other end, which I guess is about right, although I've no idea how to read the readings. Also used multimeter to check for a circuit through HT lead, which looks sound enough. Don't like to throw it away un-necessarily and at the moment, the problem seems to be earlier in the system? Got a new spark plug in, though, because the old Champion D8 had a badly bent terminal and I wasn't sure it was positioned right even when I bent it back.

Now, if I am following all the advice right, the next step is to try whizzing the flywheel round with a drill, to put some sort of charge into somewhere. I need to get hold of a socket to fit the big head nut?

I would like to understand what I am doing here. The flywheel runs magnets past magnets to set up a charge in the coil? There is a circuit between one end of the coil and the points and when the points open, the current builds up and sparks across the gap and somehow gets back throught the coil to the high-tension lead? I would like to fill in the gaps here if anyone would like to help. Meanwhile, I think my neighbour has a socket set ...




See pic" See he big slotted head screw in the pionts housing with the round brass cover removed. Loosen that. Then turn the little slotted head screw to open and close points. Set gap and tighten the big slotted head screw to lock in place. Sounds like the coil is ok to use. Can you post up a pic from the area your talking about.
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silverbaby
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by silverbaby » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:40 pm

Thanks Mr Bullet. I'm holed up in the middle of a snowdrift at the moment and have ventured to garage only to reassemble motor before taking it over to my local expert for a look-see, when the roads are better. I think I've gone as far as I can on my own, without risking permanent damage, to motor or me. Will let you know what transpires.

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skyetoyman
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by skyetoyman » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:30 pm

Don't think you'll get any advice from Niander . No electricity down that end for days. Sunny and snow free on Skye though.
LLS c 1961 on a crescent 42 boat c 1980 + wspcl c 1976 + 102 SD8561 c 1944 + 102 ACR 1948

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Niander101
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by Niander101 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:41 am

JUST GOT OUT IN TIME!...:)

Broadband was down here though

silverbaby
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happy ending

Post by silverbaby » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:18 pm

For the interest of anyone passing by, she lives! Just reluctantly shut her down and closed the garage door.
I did it the coward’s way – took her to a good mechanic, Steve Eltringham at Leeds Marine, who spent a couple of hours going back over the ground I thought I’d covered but doing it better: tightening an HT plug connection, cleaning the points, tickling the carb and playing with points and plug gaps until they balanced.
Thanks to all who offered advice but the lesson in the end was that there is only so much that internetting can tell you. Sometimes, there is no instant solution you can look up – it’s down to patience and experience?
Next job is to fix my neighbour’s boat. Then I need somewhere for a test run. Anyone know a lake in the Leeds area which will allow a dinghy and outboard?

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