another novice's tale

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silverbaby
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Location: leeds

another novice's tale

Post by silverbaby » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:32 pm

Now then. I chose Silverbaby when I had to choose a moniker because, altho grizzled, I'm a complete beginner when it comes to engines. So excuse daft questions.
Here's my story so far with a 1962-3 40 series Seagull my bro-in-law found and gave me as a retirement present, which is how I found you guys ...
All looked quite clean and correct except there was a gap between fuel line and tank. Looked like somebody handy had been cleaning it up and then died and nobody could find the missing bit - fuel tap, of course. I took the bottom off the carburettor - don't like to go further unless I have to - and it looked clean. So did fuel tank. Washed a little bit of gunge out of the fuel line. Ordered a petrol tap from good old John at SOS and eventually got the gearbox oiled up and the fuel mixed and tried to start her. No joy.
Fuel line dribbled badly and I snapped the new tap over-tightening the connection. Tried to remove fuel tank to assist removal of broken bit but it seems to be welded as well as bolted on? Eventually got the broken bit of brass out anyway.
When I come to reassemble ...
Where the fuel line screws into the carb, via hollow screw with filter sleeve, there are red fibre washers and one is a bit chewed. Maybe that was the cause of the leak. Where do I get those washers and what size am I asking for (looks like about seven sixteenths in old money but I don't know if that makes sense)? And/or is there a better material nowadays available?
The fuel line screws onto the fuel tap with a recessed nut. No washer in there - correct? Is there something I can use to improve the seal?
Spark plug looks clean and okay. But no sign of a spark out of it when I turn the starter with the plug loose against the motor block. Next thing, according to all the advice I have printed off, is to undo the nut holding the cover on the fly wheel and check the points?
Easier said than done, of course. I need someone to hold the fly wheel while I get both hands on the spanner. Or is there a way of jamming the wheel while I work? Reluctant to put my foot on the prop, for fear of breaking that next.
Should I replace spark plug anyway? Seems to be a Champion 8.
Finally, I'm in Leeds. If I get this going, and borrow a boat, anyone got recommendations on where to take it?
Last edited by silverbaby on Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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1650bullet
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by 1650bullet » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:54 pm

If you can post up a couple of pics please mate. And can tell us what the Id number is(the numbers are located just below the power head were the 2 mounting nuts are) we can know what type of 40 it is to help you out. With a motor that old things will be a bit fragile so handle with care.

silverbaby
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Location: leeds

Re: another novice's tale

Post by silverbaby » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:39 pm

Thankyou mate. I am looking for the way to post pix. Serial number of the motor is SJP 32837, which I looked up and dated to 62-63.
I just added a couple of details to my questions:
The washers I am talking about look like the hole in them is seven sixteenths of an inch, just holding them against a ruler. Does that make sense? And do I just replace them or is there nowadays a better material?
I am now attempting to post
motor pic:
P1000250.JPG
and fuel line pic, in case at all helpful
P1000251.JPG
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Keith.P
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by Keith.P » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:40 pm

Fibre washers, two for the banjo bolts and one for the fuel tap, I usually buy a mixed box set and use then until I'm left with the ones I don't need.

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1650bullet
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by 1650bullet » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:29 pm

John at SOS should have the fibre washers that you need, Im sure you said that the fuel tap has snapped of. John has reconditioned fuel taps including the tiny little cork seal that hides inside, You need the cork seal so it wont leak when you push the tap in to shut the fuel of. Now the Ignition. Your motor has got the villiers type. Normally a bit of sand paper between the pionts will clean them up and should make a spark. (Clean out the dust when you sand them) You shouldnt have to remove the flywheel itself, But it does make life a little easyer.(ive posted up a pic of how to remove the flywheel) Set the pionts to 18 to 20 thou. All of the methods that you need to do are on the FAQs section on the home page, If you still dont have spark the coil might be dead or the plug lead might need replacing. Its a early 1960s motor thats probably spend most of its life in a back shed thats been a home for a family of spiders--ants--or bugs of any sought so something may need replacing. If there is anything ive missed i will Edit this post and ps it.
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bychance
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by bychance » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:24 pm

Welcome Silverbaby!

I've always had success when removing the flywheel nut by using the correct spanner size and giving it a sharp hit with a hammer. I haven't needed to hold the flywheel.

Once you get the cover off, you may see this:
IMG_0349 2.jpg
Then swing the lid holder out of the way and points cover comes off:
IMG_0350 (2).jpg
These pics are of a 1962 LLS
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silverbaby
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re advice so far

Post by silverbaby » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:00 pm

Thanks fellas. The fuel tap itself didn't leak. It was when I let the fuel through - so I am guessing the problem was no washer in the cup nut which clamps the fuel line onto the tap thread. It's a very tiny space to get a washer into and I'm wondering if a mixed pack of fibre washers will have the right one? I'll ask John about it when I order replacement fuel tap. Wondering if I could improvise with a bit of fly line?
Meanwhile, putting all that off until I have sorted the spark problem.
Can I test the plug lead in some way with a multimeter?
As for getting the top retaining bolt off the flywheel cover, I'll try the hammer trick but it's looking like a two-man job unless I can find some way to jam the wheel. Will let you know next stage.

silverbaby
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update on this one

Post by silverbaby » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:56 pm

Just in case anyone is still following this one ...
Eventually got the top nut off the flywheel, after a week of WD40 and a visit from a second pair of hands.
Next, single-handed again, attempted to follow instruction to "remove the cover underneath this, to expose the ignition system below".
Remove by unscrewing the cover anti-clockwise? I have just been trying this for half an hour. I seem to be halfway there but once again I seem to need to jam the prop or otherwise hold the central transmission rod in order to pull the wheel against it and I'm worried about breaking something. Am I missing something? Have applied more WD40 and retreated to the house for research.

PS: OK - apologies to 1650bullet - should have looked at that diagram you posted before - now gather, from that and other advice, that this is a two-man job involving a hammer ...
Last edited by silverbaby on Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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1650bullet
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by 1650bullet » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:11 pm

I think your trying to remove the rope pulley and cover that should have the words( The best outboard for the world ). Both should just slide of, Not unscrew. Give it a little tap here and there to loosen things up a little intil it seats again and then clean the top of the shaft and thread with a wire brush and wd-40. Sounds like theres a lot of corrosion around that area.
Last edited by 1650bullet on Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

silverbaby
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by silverbaby » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:16 pm

Thanks 1650 bullet - I was posting a PS just as you were posting your reply, having gone back over previous and seen that diagram you sent in ... I'll have another go.

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1650bullet
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by 1650bullet » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:27 pm

The rope pulley and the top cover thats got (The best outboard motor for the world) are 2 separate parts. So slide of the starter pulley and the cover. The cover may require a metal pick underneath to remove because it sounds like you might have a bit of corrosion under there. If it wont slide of just keep unscrewing it until it parts company. It might have an incorrect washer on there. If thats the case bin it and get a new one.

silverbaby
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by silverbaby » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:32 pm

Got the cover off! Guess what? I hadn't realised there was a removable plate in the top. I was trying to get the whole top half off the flywheel. Have exposed points. All looks quite clean but gap, even to my novice eye, looks way too small. Now setting out to teach myself how to adjust it ... could well be another week.

Keith.P
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by Keith.P » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:06 pm

The point will be closed with the flywheel off, as they work off the cam on the flywheel.
Picture above, The large screw holds the point, loosen to adjust, also its best to clean points first.
Put flywheel cover on when testing, saves fingers when spinning.

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Stelios_Rjk
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by Stelios_Rjk » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:31 pm

Instead of spending another week for the points why don't you read this?

http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/faq/faq.htm

When the points are open there should be a gap of 20thou or 0.5mm.
I love the 10600/145 turns!!!

silverbaby
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Re: another novice's tale

Post by silverbaby » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:51 pm

I have been going through the FAQs but I need the Dummies guide to adjusting points and haven't found it yet. Thanks to Keith.P but I don't think your illustration posted?
I haven't got the flywheel off - just the lid.
Actually, the gap looks better now I've cleaned it and I might leave it as it iswhile I try changing the plug. It's a Champion 8 which, I gather, suggests it is the original fitting, and might be simply dead of old age?

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