To start things off...

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Guest

To start things off...

Post by Guest » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:18 am

How about:

So, you've acquired your first British Seagull Outboard... first things first...

The first thing you will probablty want to know is what is it!

For this, you will need to locate your Engine Serial Number which can be found on the crankcase above the transom bracket and below the handle. [Keith.P - one of your cool diagrams needed here please mate 8) ].

The serial number will be a mix of letters and numbers.

Armed with this number you can go to http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/i_ ... eagull.php.

This little program should be able to tell you the rough age of your motor, power, correct fuel/oil mix and maybe a whole lot more!

Guest

Re: To start things off...

Post by Guest » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:32 am

Then we might have:

Things to do before you start your motor for the first time:

[I don't really know the answer to this :oops: ... up to you guys from here on]
  1. 1. Empty the tank
  • 2. Check that the propeller turns freely
  • 3. Refill the tank with the appropriate fuel/oil mixture
  • 4. Immerse the outboard to around two thirds of the length of the exhaust tube (see diagram)
...etc.

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Hugz
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Re: To start things off...

Post by Hugz » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:29 am

First you need to do a physical inspection. Is it all there? Is there anything broken or bent? Is there a lead to the sparkplug from the Magneto (the round thing on top). Is there a throttle cable from lever on tiller handle to carburettor (does everyone know what a carburettor is....) Does the throttle lever move back and forth. Does the magneto (flywheel) turn around without scraping noise. Is there compression (resistance whilst turning flywheel). Does the propeller turn when flywheel is rotated. Does it have a dog clutch ie a lever that goes up and down attached to a rod that attaches to the gearbox which the propeller is attached to. Check there is lubricant in gearbox. Plug is at opposite end of gearbox where propeller is (older models have nipples and need disassembly to check). Is the tank, fuel line and filters (2) clean? Check appendix..) Have you added fresh fuel with 10/1 two stroke oil (or 25/1 in some later cases). Install a new D16 Champion sparkplug. If all is well, it is ready to start... Place in test tank (wheely bin etc). Add water a few inches above gearbox housing. Undo blead screw on tank filler (lets air in as petrol is used). Pull fuel knob out at fuel tap at base of petrol tank. Expect petrol to drip out everywhere. Keep fire extinguisher handy and test in a flame free zone. Open throttle to about half (each motor has a unique starting position). Push choke lever (metal flap on Carburettor to reduce air intake) down. Push down small button on carburettor until fuel spills from a small hole, release. Wind rope around top of flywheel pulley. Knot goes into insert. Pray to Thor, kiss your Sheila good bye and let her know where the will is. Grip the tiller with one hand and evenly pull the rope with the other. Nothing? Do it again. Expect to try two or three times for a functioning motor. Once started, check to see if water is coming out of tell tale. If all is well, lift choke lever slowly as motor warms up. Play with throttle. If it has a clutch move lever up and down at just above idle speed. Never use full revs if the propeller is removed or clutch is disengaged. Now that is is a working motor you can get into a more advanced mode and check points gaps etc.... cont'd

Guest

Re: To start things off...

Post by Guest » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:51 am

Well done Hugz, that's brilliant! 8)

I reckon even I, with my limited knowledge, would feel pretty confident of being able to start a motor without doing too much damage if I followed your instructions.

I would normally not just dive in and move a post over to the guide, but just to illustrate the way I think this little project might work, let's assume your post has been up for a week and consensus has agreed that it is a good post...

I am going to move it over as the first item in The Guide (for now). I will format it a bit and highlight any 'techi' terms (i.e. anything I don't understand) in green. It would be good to have a diagram of a motor with these green words pointed out so we know where they are ( :!: Keith.P), and then as Hugz suggests, we could also have an appendix explaining what these various terms mean etc.

Please post comments regarding my editing and the quality of the information in here and we will 'buff' it up as we go. If anyone else ( :?: Buzook perhaps) wishes to post a better version of my edit in here too then again, please feel free, and once that has been chewed over, we would replace my version with yours.

Just had another thought... should we have an 'honors list' of contributors at the end...?

Cheers,

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Oyster 49
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Re: To start things off...

Post by Oyster 49 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:27 pm

If after all the initial preparation the engine will not start, there are several common reasons why, which is often why the engine has been left in a shed unused for some time, before you bought it on ebay :D
1. Fuel supply
2. Poor spark

1. Fuel supply. Old fuel that has been left in the tank is often a cause of poor starting running, along with dirty fuel and remains of old fuel in the carburetor. Try the following - Drain the fuel tank and discard safely the old fuel, but don't use it in the car! Rinse out the fuel tank using half a pint of fresh fuel. Remove the fuel pipe from the tank and carb and clean using fresh fuel or parafin. Allow both tank and fuel pipe to dry and then inspect for crud.
Remove the float bowl from the carb and clean out using fresh petrol or parafin, a small brush is often useful here. Again allow to dry out and inspect the rest of the carb for any dirt or debris, ensure the throttle lever operates the carb slide up and down smoothly. Ensure air inlet is clean.


After all this the fuel system should be clean, dry and ready for reassembly. Reassemble and fill tank with fresh fuel with correct oil mix.

2. Poor spark. Firstly remove the spark plug and inspect the spark plug lead. Hold the spark plug against the cylinder and spin the flywheel to see if the plug is sparking. If the engine has not been used for a while then the ignition points could well be dirty, corroded or closed up. Undo the nut holding the flywheel on, and then remove the cover undernith this, to expose the ignition system below. The points are within a small brass "tin" which has a lid that can be slid off after the spring loaded retaining arm is slipped to one side. The points can then be viewed and cleaned by inserting a small piece of fine grit wet and dry between the contacts. Once clean rotate the flywheel untill the points are open and check the gap, which should be aprox 0.020" or 0.5mm or the thickness of a fag packet(!) If the gap is incorect, then this can be adjusted loosening the lock screw and carefully prising the points backplate into a wider or smaller gap.
Once the gap is adjusted turn the flywheel a few times and recheck the gap.
Now reassemble the points cover, flywheel cover and tighten the flywheel nut. Spin the flywheel and check for a spark at the spark plug. If all is good then reassemble the spark plug and spark plug lead, ensuring all is secure.

The fuel system and ignition system should now be ready to go. The seagull bug could be about to bite :P

Brendan, I've added some pics, hope this is of help.
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Guest

Re: To start things off...

Post by Guest » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:27 pm

That's great Oyster! Well done that man! :D

I'll get on with putting that into The Guide in a bit.

Keep 'em coming guys!

Guest

Re: To start things off...

Post by Guest » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:29 pm

I've put these two posts by Hugz and Oyster 49 into the guide straight away just to get a feel for how the guide will work... but that was just 'To start things off...' It is all up to you guys from now on... :)

I think they are both excellent, but then, what do I know? :oops:

Let's see what sort of feedback we get from this and go from there... bloody good start though I think! :D

Keith.P
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Re: To start things off...

Post by Keith.P » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:45 am

I don't know what type of thing you need for this, you say, you don't need colour pictures, you don't need animation, so other than the basic stuff that already about, I don't think that I can help much.
You say its going to be a printable guide, so what about when you get some OAP that has no printer(sorry Charlesuk).:wink:

If its a PDF file, then it will end up getting past about on other sites and so on and no one will ever have the need to ever visit this site.

Guest

Re: To start things off...

Post by Guest » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:08 pm

Morning Keith!
Before you start your Seagull for the first time...

First you need to do a physical inspection...

1.Is it all there?
2.Is there anything broken or bent?
3.Is there a lead to the sparkplug from the Magneto (the round thing on top)?
4.Is there a throttle cable from throttle lever on tiller handle to carburettor?
5.Does the throttle lever move back and forth?
6.Does the magneto (flywheel) turn around without scraping noise?
7.Is there compression (resistance whilst turning flywheel)?
8.Does the propeller turn when flywheel is rotated?
9.Does it have a dog clutch (i.e. a lever that goes up and down attached to a rod that attaches to the gearbox which the propeller is attached to)?
10.Check there is lubricant in gearbox. The gearbox drain plug is at opposite end of gearbox where propeller is (older models have nipples and need disassembly to check).
11.Is the tank, fuel line and filters (2 of) clean?

[a diagram showing the highlighted words above (and where to find the serial number) could go in here]
To start with, we could do with a diagram showing a whole motor like your avatar but with all the green parts labelled please.

I personally think that colours are very important (I like the colours you've used in your avatar) but for this one I don't think we need animation.

I guess if they don't have a printer then they would have to drag the motor into the house or the computer into the shed :) ... or they could go to the library and have them print it off :idea:

The copyright is implicit and so if we find the guide being hosted anywhere else we can have that site shut down. This site: http://www.copyrightaid.co.uk/forum/topic27.htm might explain things better than I can...

The Guide isn't a pdf it's part of this forum, and is therefore offered free, it's printable and downloadable (as are all parts of this site)... again, if someone were to make it into a pdf and host it somewhere else, we can get their site shut down. What we are trying to do, I think, is to give Seagull newbies a helping hand by putting a basic guide together all in one place.

Cheers,

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skyetoyman
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Re: To start things off...

Post by skyetoyman » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:05 pm

Keep up the good work. I do not believe people will stop visiting this site. It is worth just for the insults flying backwards and forwards.
Well done so far
LLS c 1961 on a crescent 42 boat c 1980 + wspcl c 1976 + 102 SD8561 c 1944 + 102 ACR 1948

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The Tinker
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Re: To start things off...

Post by The Tinker » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:24 am

Here here. Should mention it is a good idea to check the ignition base plate is tight. Dont over tighten screw. Had a seagull backfire an start running backwards starter cord was still hooked in the slot. Starter cord give me a good whipping, about 15 good welts down the back of my arm before I could rip plug lead off. I found base plate loose an timing was out

Keith.P
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Re: To start things off...

Post by Keith.P » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:50 am

OK, parts to numbers needed.
Is there enough numbers, do we need more, or just the basics.
I can do the editing, any size you like, just need a parts list and how far to go with it.
Don't like the green. :mrgreen:

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Oyster 49
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Re: To start things off...

Post by Oyster 49 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:19 pm

Brendan, some extra photos to go with my post, can you add to the guide? :D
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atoyot
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Re: To start things off...

Post by atoyot » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:17 pm

With regard to this nice triage list -

[quote=guest]Before you start your Seagull for the first time...

First you need to do a physical inspection...

1.Is it all there?
2.Is there anything broken or bent?
3.Is there a lead to the sparkplug from the Magneto (the round thing on top)?
4.Is there a throttle cable from throttle lever on tiller handle to carburettor?
5.Does the throttle lever move back and forth?
6.Does the magneto (flywheel) turn around without scraping noise?
7.Is there compression (resistance whilst turning flywheel)?
8.Does the propeller turn when flywheel is rotated?
9.Does it have a dog clutch (i.e. a lever that goes up and down attached to a rod that attaches to the gearbox which the propeller is attached to)?
10.Check there is lubricant in gearbox. The gearbox drain plug is at opposite end of gearbox where propeller is (older models have nipples and need disassembly to check).
11.Is the tank, fuel line and filters (2 of) clean?

[a diagram showing the highlighted words above (and where to find the serial number) could go in here][/quote]

...if set up as a regular part of the web page, perhaps each numbered line could be accompanied by a hyperlink to a following suggestion, line item by line item, what to do if the item is not found as it should be? For instance, I find that my throttle does not move back and forth, so I click on that line and I'm directed to a paragraph on what to do to repair, free up, or replace a throttle cable or controller (or carb piston etc).

Along with this sort of list perhaps one could even put up a modified version, a list of things to look for upon inspection of a possible Seagull purchase at the onset. That is, if allowed to inspect an engine prior to purchase, what would I look for to see what I'm getting myself into without going into repair mode in someone's driveway? "Is this something I think I can deal with?" This might be redundant I suppose. A list could be written to appeal to a person on the yard sale circuit/shed cleaner and the new recipient alike. Forget for a moment that even a non-functioning engine has value to collectors, just for the spares alone.

Another thing - we assume that a new-to-Seagull person has the aptitude to do these prelilminary checks and to engage in simple repairs but is the lucky buyer familiar with the need for special tools? They may not seem so special to us, to seasoned veterans, but we're writing to the new owner. A few words about British Whitworth/BSF gauge spanners would not be out of place before someone gets too far along with a close-fit SAE or metric wrench to back out gracefully prior to messing up a hard-to-replace part.

Good work so far!
There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all.
- Prof. Peter Drucker

Guest

Re: To start things off...

Post by Guest » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:30 am

Hi Guys,

Your responses have been great... Thanks!

Keith, thanks for sorting out the diagram, I agree, that green is nasty, sorry, please choose a decent colour and let me know the RGB values and I will change the text to match. I'm going to put this version of the diagram straight into the guide to get a feel for sizes.

Can someone please take the following list of parts and tell us which number on Keith's diagram each one is please.

Sparkplug.
Magneto (flywheel).
Throttle Cable.
Throttle Lever.
Tiller Handle.
Carburettor.
Propellor.
Dog Clutch.
Gearbox.
Gearbox Drain Plug.
Fuel Line.
Filters (2 of).
seagullc%2040+parts1small.jpg
I'll add the new pics to the second page... thanks Oyster. [Done]

Where should I put Tinkers (hard earned) note about the ignition base plate please anyone?

I like Atoyot's idea of doing this like a web page, it would give us the option of making things interactive as he suggests. To do that though we would have to take it out of the forum to John's main site and just have a link to it from the forum index page perhaps... We could also just carry on as we are now for a while longer and see later... what do people think?

Atoyot also has also given us a couple of good suggestions for other pages... anyone fancy writing a buyers guide or a toolkit list?

What I think I will do is create a thread for each page/proposed page and we can all leave our comments relating to each one in the relevent section. [Done]

Cheers,
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