Working on the "D"

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Raya
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Working on the "D"

Post by Raya » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:24 pm

I've decided to assemble a D series motor from a "box of bits" that I purchased from e-bay and from parts I already have and from parts sourced elsewhere. My aim is to make the outboard as close to original as possible (without being too pedantic about all the details), and to end up with a functioning outboard not intended for everyday use.

I have little history of D2120 except that it was kept complete for many years by a man who intended to "do it up". At some stage, he disassembled most of it, but must have lost interest, and the parts ended up stored in boxes. The man eventually contracted Alzheimer’s disease and the parts went to his brother who also intended to restore the motor. Unfortunately, by then, many of the parts were missing so the brother gave up on the restoration. His friend posted the parts on e-bay.

The parts themselves tell a bit more of the story. The Seagull didn't come apart too easily as evidenced by the hammer blows inflicted on the exhaust flange rendering the pinch bolt hole nearly oval. One piston ring was also broken in the conflict. Maybe the trauma of the disassembly was what quashed the desire for restoration.

In any case, I am left with about three quarters of the 200 or so parts that make up a 1946 Seagull. On the plus side, I have a complete gearbox, original tank, and most of the motor. I have a fair selection of parts from other motors to help complete the project. I've managed to order a few of the rarer missing parts from John which will help with the originality. I'll record the progress as I go for those that are interested (as well as picking their brain on aspects of originality).

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Oyster 49
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by Oyster 49 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:32 pm

Excellent, you have most of the hardest to find items already. One thing I would advise, be pedantic! If you are going to do one of these more rare engines, then it’s worth doing it properly. Little details like the correct fuel tube make the difference, and give you hours of fun making them.

Horsley-Anarak
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by Horsley-Anarak » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:17 pm

Looking forward to this.
post some pictures.
We all have bits in the sheds if you are looking for something.

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Collector Inspector
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by Collector Inspector » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:36 am

Yes.

Spend some time in getting the Old Dear close to as period perfect as you can.

Not often do they show up in the hands of someone who cares.

As already said, we have bits and bobs in dusty boxes that will be of help I am sure.

BnC

Perth
A chicken is one egg's way of becoming others

Raya
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by Raya » Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:22 am

Thanks for your encouragement and offers of help. As regards originality, I'm lucky that there has previously been posted on this site, a line drawing with part numbers for a 1946 model. I'll use the parts numbers from this drawing when I reference things. (drawing posted again below) The are also a couple of photos of 1946 Seagulls on the site which I'll also use as a guide as well as advice from you guys. (Please let me know if I'm going wrong.)

One part that I haven't got and that isn't on the line drawing is the bracket. From what I can gather, the correct bracket is probably the skeletal one but I have also seen brass ones as well. I've ordered a brass frame and A support from a Ebay seller in England which is presently somewhere between here and there. My plan was to mate this with two brass clamps from a later bracket and use a metal thrust block that John found for me. The clamps are solid not hollow so I've been on the lookout for the correct ones. It is very unusual to find Seagull parts on Gumtree, but yesterday I saw an ad for a brass bracket which had the hollow clamps not far from where I live. When I picked the clamp up today, the man who was selling it mentioned that he parts from two Seagulls and would I like a look. He said he was clearing out his garage and that I could have them for $40. Bargain. Some of the bits matched the parts I am missing including the swept back propeller. John has already sourced me a prop, which hasn't arrived yet, so now I'll have two to choose from.

The mixture of parts is interesting. There are motor parts from AD4233 (1948-49) and from AD31432 (1952-53). The gear box and prop must be from an earlier motor as the two ADs would have had bow tie props. Only one of he cylinders is salvagable, the earlier one having a cracked water jacket. (This is a pity because it would have been a closer match for the D.) I think the damage here was due to the dismantling rather than rust as the water passages are reasonably clear. Regardless, I'm very pleased with this purchase although my shed is rapidly filling with all things Seagull.

The D is progressing with the cylinder now attached to the crank. No real issues other than I had to make up the missing crankcase studs from a length of 316 stainless. I reused some old nuts as the originals are thicker than replacements available today. I cleaned and nickleplated them so that they look pretty original. The crankcase castings cleaned up, but not shiney bright. (Could be slightly different alloy or maybe just my technique.) One of the studs for the tank bracket was broken. I had to drill it out and tap it as I couldn't get out the broken bit. The elbow connector (1321) wasn't seating right down due to the bottom few threads being rusty. I ran a tap through it and now it's fine. I lightly honed the cylinder and it came up well. No scratches that I could see or feel.

Next job is the Magneto which I have cleaned up but am awaiting delivery of a few small bits for it from Sheridan. If the coil doesn't produce a spark, I now have two more spares to try. I'll start on the bracket while waiting for the sailing ships from England.
102.gif
Cylinder prior to painting.jpg
cylinder and crankcase.jpg
Box of parts.jpg
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Raya
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by Raya » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:40 am

Bracket - I have most of the parts for a bracket of around the vintage that would suit this Seagull. The main frame bracket (1326) in the photo of the parts is from a later model (102 plus?) and doesn't have the holes in the side of the frame for the split pins. The main frame bracket of the assembled unit is closer to the correct age as it bears the patent number (E1326-9B) missing from the later one.

I'm missing one of the bent thumbscrews but should be able to fabricate a reasonable facsimile. The chain isn't quite right and the small split pin should be brass, but otherwise it is reasonably close (except, of course, for the non-brass thrust block).

Regarding the part numbers, I am taking the part number GIF as ground zero for the numbering system.
It looks to me like the draftsman just started numbering parts beginning at 1266 and worked his way down the motor. Unfortunately, the bracket numbers are not in the drawing but from the original numbers still used it seems that the bracket numbers started at 1326 and finished at either 1341 or 1343. Below is a list of bracket parts I can identify against this run of numbers.

1326 Main Frame member
1327
1328
1329
1330 Thumbscrews
1331 Thumbscrews cup washers
1332
1333
1334 Cap for support lug
1335 Engine support lug complete
1336
1337 Studs for support lug and cap
1338
1339 Security bar through top of (support) bracket
1340 Thrust block complete
1341 Stud for above 3 1/8"

These are the parts that I can't find numbers for.

Brass Chain
Split pin for brass chain (fix to bracket)
split pin for security bar and latch
Latch (chain type)
Latch securing split pin
Hinge screws for strut

For completeness, can anyone help correlate these parts to the missing numbers?
Bracket Parts.jpg
Bracket assembled.jpg
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Oyster 49
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by Oyster 49 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:22 pm

The thumbscrews made from brass are available from SOS I believe.

Raya
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by Raya » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:49 am

Magneto.
I was able to disassemble the parts from the magneto baseplate without too much difficulty. The points are of the earlier design without the sliding gap adjustment. I replaced the low tension lead as the insulation was crumbling. The eye terminal attached to the wire (ordered from Sheridan) was too small for this version of the points so replaced it with the original eye. The only other parts I replaced were the insulating bush that the wire goes through and the underside paper gasket. The coil tested OK for continuity.

There are a couple of changes I noticed from this magneto (1946) and one I have from 1948. The later base plate has acquired some drain holes as well as a brass bush for the centre hole. The clamping bolt also gets longer and has a larger square end.

The high tension leads from these years are a couple of inches longer than those that followed are have an embossed braided finish. The spark plug ends were not the usual type for the Seagull cap. I decided to re-fit the Champion cover that came with the motor to one of the longer leads. My guess is that the champion cover was original but was replaced after the thumb screw was damaged taking it off a corroded plug at some time. I replaced the missing screw with one from a Seagull cap and it fitted perfectly. (Does anyone know when Seagull started fitting the Seagull branded cap?)

There were two spark plugs in the box of D parts, a Lodge and a KLG. Both are badly rusted. Because the Lodge was specified as a spare for the wartime SD, I'm guessing that a Lodge was originally fitted to this outboard. I managed to find a few old C3 Lodges on Ebay so I'll fit one of these to keep the originality.

After reassembly and fitting to the engine, I was rewarded with a healthy spark.
Fist version points.jpg
Base plate changes.jpg
Magneto dissasembled.jpg
High tension leads.jpg
Spark Plugs.jpg
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AusAnzani
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by AusAnzani » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:24 am

Great work. Love the older style 2-piece plugs.

Raya
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by Raya » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:23 am

The parts that I purchased lacked the silencer tube (1310) and silencer clip (1312). I was able to source some 3 inch by 1/16" brass tube so purchased a piece 17 1/2" long. The wall size was slightly thicker than the original. I had to grind out the inner wall so that it slipped over the engine exhaust flange. The pipe fitted the lower flange without adjustment. I also purchased a hole saw of the appropriate size for the hole for the new water outlet fitting (1323). I purchaed the backnut (1324) locally, as Sheriden didn't list this part.

The photo shows the silencer tube after a visit to the electroplaters. I have two different versions of the clip which I can use. The brass one was supplied by John (SOS). He said that it suited models pre-war to just after so maybe this type was originally fitted to the D. The other clip (I had it nickel plated) came with some parts for a 1948 model so would have been period correct as well. I'm leaning towards fitting the nickel one but am happy to be corrected.
Exhaust tube and brackets.jpg
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Oyster 49
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by Oyster 49 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:24 pm

SD engines had the brass unplated clamp, but not sure when the plated version came in. The brass ones look nice when polished up of course :P

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Charles uk
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by Charles uk » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:12 pm

I've got an almost unmessed with D somewhere Cookie, that I bought many years ago when the moderators were researching all the Seagull models from before the paperwork era, so we some idea what we were talking about.

The number on mine is D 701, it had a long water jacket cylinder with no core plugs & with a number cast on the side not clear but started with a capital"E", a 2 bladed swept back prop & a coolie hat flywheel (JM 9909 so that's been changed, with a brimless coolie hat cover, a brass bayonet fuel tank & a cast choke less aluminium air intake with seagull cast on it.

I must have a C somewhere as well.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Raya
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by Raya » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:53 am

Mine is much the same spec as Charles' but with a steel bayonet tank and flat top ignition. Interesting about the lack of core plugs. I'm sure that the cylinder that came with the motor I have is from a later model (the exhaust flange is the longer type), but at least the lack of core plugs is appropriate.

The only picture that I could find of an original looking D was on the BritishSeagullParts model explanation webpage. http://www.britishseagullparts.com/outb ... series.htm Of interest, the serial number of that is D702, one off of Charles'. It has the brass tank as well. It looks like the D model suffered a few changes in it's short career.

Raya
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by Raya » Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:32 am

The metal fuel tank appeared to be in good condition with no dents, but upon closer inspection, there was pitting and corrosion in places on the outside surface. Inside was smooth but with some slight surface rust. I filled the tank with water and left overnight to check for pin hole leaks - all good. I decided on using a two-pack metal filler on the outside instead of automotive filler to help smooth out the pitting areas and strengthen the thinning metal. I powder-coated instead of painting the tank to further protect the metal. The finish wasn't as good as you can get with filler and paint but is much thicker and tougher than you get with a spray can. I finished with a few coats of clear over the transfers.

The brackets for my tank (part number 1305) differ from that in the 1946 general arrangement drawing. My brackets look like precursors to the later brackets that used the D shaped nut and washer. My guess is that the Jubilee clips were phased out some time after the drawing was finished in March. The replacement straps were then further refined to the more familiar shape in a subsequent year. The only other explanation was that the straps I have were not from Seagull. (Can anyone shed some light on this?) The straps were black with many layers of paint but I had then refinished with nickel.

The chrome on the filler cap has a few small scratches but is otherwise in good condition. I'll leave the cap as is. The brass on the tank brackets (1304) was showing through and needed a freshen up in my nickel bath. I nickelled four (new) bolts (1302) and (old) spring washers (1303) while I was at it.

Still to go is the fuel pipe which I will bend myself after the solder nipples I ordered arrive from the UK. I think the U pattern would suit this model but correct me if this came later than 46.

One item not amounst the parts I purchased, was the old style, long arm, Ámal throttle control. If someone has said item and is willing to sell it, or knows where I can get one, please let me know.

For the record, here is a list of Seagull's original part numbers and nomenclature for the tank parts:

Fuel tank parts
1301 Petrol tank
1302 Fuel tank bracket bolt
1303 Washer for screw
1304 support brackets, Port and Starboard
1305 Fixing straps, complete (2)
1306 Filler cap complete
1307 Fuel tap and filter
1308 Washer for fuel tap
1309 Petrol pipe with unions
Tank parts drawing.jpg
Tank and Brackets.jpg
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AusAnzani
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Re: Working on the "D"

Post by AusAnzani » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:06 am

This is coming along very nicely.

Is the exhaust tube Nickel or Chrome plated? Great job by the way.

Regards,

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