Which seagull

You can talk about almost anything here

Moderators: John@sos, charlesp, Charles uk, RickUK, Petergalileo

Post Reply
Piglola123
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:52 pm
Location: Norwich

Which seagull

Post by Piglola123 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:09 am

Was wondering if a standard shaft 40 plus would be powerful enough for a hunter 19 Europa sail boat or perhaps better to go with bigger model

Chris B
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:37 pm
Location: England

Re: Which seagull

Post by Chris B » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:05 pm

Hi.

It will certainly develop enough thrust to move your Europa around without difficulty in sheltered water and decent weather conditions. However, I think you'll find that a longshaft will be more suitable for your boat than a standard shaft, and I say that for two reasons.

First: if you use your boat in estuary or coastal waters, you're likely to find that in slightly choppy conditions the propeller will occasionally break the surface and the engine will race when the boat pitches and the transom rises. Regardless of sea conditions, the same thing will happen if you cross the wake of a large vessel that's travelling at a decent speed.

If you go for the longshaft option then you should be able to get the propeller and exhaust buried to their optimum depth. But if you buy a standard shaft model and it turns out to be a bit too short, then you're likely to end up with the prop and exhaust running too shallow, or alternatively with the engine's powerhead inconveniently low down, relative to the transom.

Second: it's generally easier to raise an outboard that turns out to be slightly too deep in the water, rather than lower one that isn't deep enough.

One of my boats is of a similar size and type to your Europa albeit a couple of feet longer. I've found that a Silver Century Plus longshaft works well with that boat- but its long shaft is only just long enough! A standard shaft model would definitely be too short.

By the way, on the off-chance that you don't know this already, if you don't already have an outboard mounting bracket on your boat's transom then it will pay to do some careful measuring before fitting one (and if there is already a mounting bracket in-situ, then be prepared to adjust its height to suit your new engine). If you've already decided which Seagull you'd prefer to use, then obtain the critical dimensions for correct running depth and do some measuring at your boat's transom and waterline.

As suggested earlier, although I haven't seen your boat my initial feeling is that a longshaft might turn out to be the better option, but I also seem to recall that Hunter released a couple of versions (perhaps more) of the Europa. Their transoms differ from each other, so please do a bit of measuring before making a final decision on which engine to buy!

Hope this helps,

Chris
Last edited by Chris B on Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Charles uk
Posts: 4699
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:38 pm
Location: Maidenhead Berks UK

Re: Which seagull

Post by Charles uk » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:36 pm

That's a big boat (ton & a quarter?) with a lot of windage for a 40!

Where do you plan on using it? Salt or fresh water?

Take it for a test drive with a clutched silver century, or an ENFR, if that's not comfortable try a century plus or a Kingfisher.

Post a pic of the transom, you might need a weird bracket.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Chris B
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:37 pm
Location: England

Re: Which seagull

Post by Chris B » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:19 pm

Yes - it's over a tonne (N.B in actual fact we've since discovered that it's quite a bit less than a tonne - see my next post) but around half of that is in the ballast, so it's not a physically bulky boat. The underwater shape of the hull has quite fine lines and is easily driven - and the mass doesn't really matter once you've got it moving. The mass / horsepower is more of an issue when you want to stop - but if you don't have a reverse gear then that argument becomes academic! As I said earlier, a couple of horsepower will shove the Hunter along quite nicely in sheltered water and good weather conditions.

One of my own boats is of a similar type but slightly heavier and yawl rigged (more windage!) but on a couple of occasions we've moved it around on the river Blackwater and north side of the Thames estuary with only a couple of horsepower.

Going from the sublime to the cor blimey, back in the eighties I had a 52ft timber ketch that displaced 18 tonnes and had a Gardner 6LX diesel in its engine room. To put it in some sort of perspective, the engine, gearbox and auxiliary equipment probably weighed about the same as the Hunter 19 that we're discussing! During an engine room refit I towed that boat from Sheppards Marina in Gibraltar, to Gibraltar Gunwharf using my own tender - which was an Avon inflatable fitted with a Silver Century. As stated earlier, the mass isn't of too much consequence once you've got it moving.

I believe the later versions of the Hunter had a retrousse transom which was becoming fashionable at the time they were built - but which can be a minor pain if you need to install an outboard mounting bracket.

C
Last edited by Chris B on Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Chris B
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:37 pm
Location: England

Re: Which seagull

Post by Chris B » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:36 pm

On a point of detail, it turns out that the Hunter 19 displaces only 681kg.

Which is about a half of what we were thinking.

A little Seagull will deal with that without a problem, but I shall add my caveat once again: in sheltered water and good weather conditions.

C

Gannet
Posts: 790
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:47 pm
Location: Cirencester

Re: Which seagull

Post by Gannet » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:59 am

Yes, mass is not the issue. The basic issue is how easily driven is the hull form. I suspect that most powerboat owners have very little concept of how only small amounts of power are needed to push a sailing boat hull through the water. Obsevation of the large wash created by a typical planning hull at displacement speed is a good indication of the energy expended, and power required, by a power boat. Whereas a similar size sailing hull at a similar speed produces little wash and needs little power..

Jeremy

Chris B
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:37 pm
Location: England

Re: Which seagull

Post by Chris B » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:12 pm

Jeremy's explanation is clearer than mine and he's illustrated my point nicely.

Regarding the OP's original question about engine size. The Hunter 19 is a small and easily driven sailing boat. As it was designed for wind power I feel it's safe to assume that the owner wants to go sailing. That being the case, then the engine is likely to be primarily used for manoeuvring in and out of tight marina berths, or whilst picking up a mooring. In either case I'd be happy to use a small Seagull.

If, on the other hand, the owner's intention is to do a lot of motoring or motor sailing, with an occasional bit of pure sailing thrown in, then it might be sensible to consider bolting on an engine that offers 5hp rather than 2 or 3. Not much point in going higher than 5hp with such a short waterline length, because when you open the throttle the surplus engine power will just get converted into an interesting but expensive hump of water that follows along behind you.

Horses for courses...

C

Post Reply