Gear oil and two stroke

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Pinger
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by Pinger » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:31 am

Oyster 49 wrote:Yes, some 140 grade oil from certain manufacturers will not emulsify, and if it does it separates very quickly as soon as the engine stops. )
There are oils that will not emulsify (film strength of the oil is seriously compromised when emulsified) and the separation (for which there is a test yielding numerical answers) is instantaneous.
However, while I am aware of two from the manufacturer in question, I would have to check compatibility with yellow metal (bushes). Generally, a GL4 oil is OK, a GL5 is not.
Just to add, the MOQ as it's a product aimed at industry is just shy of 20 litres and the pricing is pretty stiff.
Really though, I'm only posting this to make you aware that such oils exist should anyone really want to pursue them.

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Charles uk
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by Charles uk » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:19 pm

Jeremy

If it can't do any harm, it doesn't fall under our remit!
It wouldn't be a major task to turn up an ally collar that could be glued to the back of the box with a couple of holes that would allow oil to enter that held an oil seal so it could do it's job properly.
My black century with the high exhaust has one. So I could use EP80.

Personally I'm a great believer in "If it leaks oil then check the bearings & shafts & renew if required" it's obviously a job few do as boat jumbles & Seagull service dealers closing have been really good to me for cheap new bearings & shafts, way below list, John Williams has found the same.

The description "very low hours" always brings a smile to my face, as when measured with the correct devices they are often well above Seagull's generous tolerances.

We really ought to encourage restorations that go further than a redecoration.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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fleetingcontact
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by fleetingcontact » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:39 pm

It was mentioned that at one tine John@sos posted some useful stuff on the subject of oil but it has become lost in the mists of time. This isn't the only instance of such things – I once found by happy accident a great thread discussing engine rebuilding best-practice, but I’m buggered if I can find it now.

I suggest a new section be created with the intention of posting useful stuff without any chat – and perhaps more importantly with limited editing privileges - a ‘how-to’ section. It will need to be vetted by an expert…do we know any experts?

Is it churlish of me to point out that the total of relevant facts in this thread of several pages comes down to:

• Use SAE 140, spec needs to be GL4 which emulsifies and not GL5 which does not.
• Drip-trays can help to monitor oil loss
• V-ring seals can assist in oil retention (but will not prevent it) and can be purchased from…
• Featherweight gearboxes should be filled with fresh oil for every use, best-practice is to fill with the motor horizontal
• Some sellers of acceptable grades are…


I’m not saying this is everything on the subject of lubrication, but something like this could be set up as a reference. In a similar way, all that good stuff recently submitted on JM and Villiers magnetos could be summarised and retained in the relevant section where it can be found…

There would of course be the added bonus that the rest of the forum could then be reserved for bickering. Does anybody else think this is a good idea?

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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by Horsley-Anarak » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:44 pm

fleetingcontact wrote:There would of course be the added bonus that the rest of the forum could then be reserved for bickering. Does anybody else think this is a good idea?
I wonder about your motivation on this forum, from my view you are just being a Troll.

Is your main aim just to wind people up?

Please cut the crap!!!

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fleetingcontact
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by fleetingcontact » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:59 pm

You see, that was a joke. Perhaps I should make more use of those emoji things to flag it up for you.

Horsley-Anarak
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by Horsley-Anarak » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:04 pm

fleetingcontact wrote:Perhaps I should make more use of those emoji things to flag it up for you.
Another Troll comment, I will leave you to it.

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fleetingcontact
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by fleetingcontact » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:09 pm

Are you familiar with the concept of irony?

tambikeboy
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by tambikeboy » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:20 pm

:twisted: :twisted: oil you cares not a jote not me if we're that good at fixing/rebuilding them does it really matter what oil we use simple solution just check it every time you use the thing if it needs some then just top it up failing that pour yourself another nippy sweetie chears noel I'll be back next year for another oiling. :twisted:
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Horsley-Anarak
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by Horsley-Anarak » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:46 pm

fleetingcontact wrote:Are you familiar with the concept of irony?
Yes in fact I am, you are obviously not up to speed on the concept of sarcasm.

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fleetingcontact
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by fleetingcontact » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:48 pm

Oh I see, that was sarcasm. Good one. You had me there.

haventaclue
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by haventaclue » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:23 pm

Cheers Tam and I'll raise a glass tae ye :D Enjoy

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John@sos
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by John@sos » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:04 pm

Another couple of corrections needed!

British Seagull used to sell SAE and EP 140 and 90 oils. They are safe to use.

The myth about yellow metal and GL oils I thought had been put to bed a long time ago. Seagulls do not care what grade the 140 is for non sealed boxes, nor, for the sealed boxes, what grade the 90 is.

They do not suffer from and never have, any corrosion on the bearings due to oil.

Seagull knew their stuff, it is only ever a problem in 'hot oil' applications.

So unless you are running a Seagull loaded withGL5 EP140 over a very hot spring, they care not, they are super water cooled and will enjoy the oil, far better than no oil!

I have not come across oils in normal use that do not emulsify, but if you buy an oil elsewhere, use it for a few hours and check. If you see it has gone coffee coloured, all is well. If not check for water in the box and if there is any, change to a different oil.

My advice to all with gearboxes, on ANY Seagull, is to only fill half full. If you lay a motor down and fill to the top or nearly to the top, when it is stood upright, lashed to a pole or clamped to a rail, for storage or in use, half of that oil will eventually dribble out into that drip tray! Messy and a waste of oil.

Sadly British Seagull seem to have sent out mixed messages about this over the years. They did say fill near to top at first, then modified it to say the gbx plug was a combined fill, drain and level plug. In the latest version of the workshop manual they have made claims that the 'gearboxes on all Seagull are near oil tight!' Not true. (They have also got the plug gaps wrong and the advice about clearing water blockages. so I have to add adendas to new manuals, not good!). I am not certain how much time anyone at Seagull have spent hands on a Seagull.....

I suggest that after a motor has been in use for decades the bearings will be worn and so check the oil every 5 to 10 hours use. I have never seen an old Seagull that did not leak oil!

If emulsified and no water droplets seen, top it up. If any water drain and refill.. Far, far cheaper than replacing bearings and cogs... if indeed any are still available!

Air safety rules stop oil going air mail these days, but in most countries owners have managed to source 140 oils cheaply. for UK owners I sell it £5.50 a litre. plus post.

Happy Seagulling,
John
SOS

Pinger
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by Pinger » Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:52 pm

John@sos wrote:
I have not come across oils in normal use that do not emulsify,

They exist!

See here >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4EiwG_SJJU

tambikeboy
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by tambikeboy » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:30 pm

1605 it would be interesting to see it after sitting a few hours :x
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Pinger
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Re: Gear oil and two stroke

Post by Pinger » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:39 pm

tambikeboy wrote:1605 it would be interesting to see it after sitting a few hours :x
Then sit down for a few hours then have another look!

Seriously though, it does its water separation in seconds - as per the video.

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