A Pair of Forties

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Raya
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:14 am
Location: Hope Island

A Pair of Forties

Post by Raya » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:22 am

I enjoyed restoring my 102 Seagull, so looked aound for another project. Gumtree came up with a pair of forties only ten minutes drive from my place. That must have been fate, so the two Gulls are now residing in my shed. The featherweight is seized but the plus seems like a candidate for an overhaul. It came complete with its original handbook and a service manual. This pair should keep me occupied for many months. I'll post some pics as I go along.
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tambikeboy
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Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by tambikeboy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:15 pm

Keep them apart :lol: they breed :lol:
Roll me up and smoke me when I die
Regret is just a memory written on my brow

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Charles uk
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Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by Charles uk » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:37 pm

Think I'd choose the featherweight, if the lower units OK.
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

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AusAnzani
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Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by AusAnzani » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:19 am

tambikeboy wrote:Keep them apart :lol: they breed :lol:
lmao
www.vintageoutboardsaustralia.blogspot.com

geofflena
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Location: Bristol

Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by geofflena » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:51 pm

If they breed - which seagulls are male and which are female ? - must look closer .....

I've just picked up another forty plus - local £40 - nice too. Water jacket as clean as I have ever seen one.
I just like stripping them - its theraputic !

Yesterday I spent and afternoon stripping a villiers baseplate down to bare bits - and actually managed all coil lug screws - grub screws ( it a duff coil ) Shame villiers coils are always duff - and new ones so pricey. Sort of like the villiers set up - but wipac just more reliable.

blokewithaboat
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 9:05 pm
Location: uk

Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by blokewithaboat » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:13 pm

I know exactly what you mean Geoff.
Coils for these villiers aren't that cheap any more. Well done at removing all the screws though.

geofflena
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Location: Bristol

Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by geofflena » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:45 am

The forty I bought had one bad cheese head on the gear cover - middle one - defeated me to loosen it. I sliced the gasket through with hacksaw - drilled it centre - stepped up to about 4.5mm - heat and reverse extractor - and took out a perfect round threaded tube of metal !! Very satisfying !
ps
I have loads of bits if you are after anything - some new unused. I'm planning on ebaying a lot of them individually - so will make a list one day soon of what I actually have new - and what used. I can stick it on my boat website.

Raya
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Location: Hope Island

Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by Raya » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:27 am

I've been working on the forty plus and just about every nut and screw has been a struggle but so far so good. The power unit seems to be in good condition. There was no spark at first but the problem was just growth on the points. There doesn't seem to be much corrosion inside the water from what I could see through the copper pipe connection. Water squirted in the hole with a pressure cleaner came out the tell-tale outlet and was fairly clean.

The screws holding the end cap of the lower unit proved particularly challenging. One eventually came out but the head sheared off the other. It shouldn't be too hard to remove the protuding stud (fingers crossed). The screws securing the water pump have been butchered even worse than the others so I'm in for a challenge to remove them. I might have to resort to the hacksaw, drill and extractor if all else fails. On the bright side, the crown gear and pinion look to be in good condition so I don't think that this outboard has done a lot of work.

I'll let you know how I go with the water pump fasteners.
Forty Plus impeller housing.jpg
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Raya
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Location: Hope Island

Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by Raya » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:56 am

I managed to remove the outside screw intact after a lot of effort. The gas torch and vice grips are really your friends. Once you get the tinest movement you know that you have won. The recessed bolt resisted all my efforts with both heat and an impact driver. I ended up drilling off the head and then removing the remaining stud after the parts were separated. I should have just done this with both screws first up and saved myself a load of trouble. (Out of interest, I tried to loosen the recessed screw on the featherweight to see if it would need the same treatment but it came loose with just a screwdriver. Go figure, it's 10 years older.) The bolt that clamps the drive shaft tube was also well and truely seized and had to be drilled out and retapped.

The drive shaft seems welded, well at least rusted, to the pinion shaft and won't come free. I don't want to apply too much pressure in case I dislodge the pinion. I tried soaking over night in petrol and oil (10:1 of course) but to no avail. I guess I'll just reassemble it as is. In any event, all is going well and I haven't broken anything (yet?).
Gearbox Separation.jpg
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geofflena
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Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by geofflena » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:30 am

Those cap cheeseheads tend to be stuck in the upper unthreaded part of the top cap ( white oxidation between steel shank and hole )
Once down to the thread in the base they tend to move ok with heat. I suppose the upper shank allows water ingress between shank and hole - less so the threaded part.
Drilling the cap head is probably a better option ( not sure why I didn't do that ) If you have a stalk proud - flatten the sides a little and hold real tight in a vice - then move the base unit. They can be very tight indeed !( even with the tube in you probably have enough swinging room to move it.

The drive tube can be well attached !- If not stripping the pinion - I would live with it.
Nothing to damage there with heat though - so worth trying. The top screw of the gear case cap holds the pinions bearing in position ( big dimple it screws down into ) so replace that if trying to free it.

Raya
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:14 am
Location: Hope Island

Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by Raya » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:25 am

As I'm waiting on a few bits and pieces for the forty plus before I can start reassembly, I decided to start on the featherweight. Amazingly, the nuts and bolts holding it together offered nowhere near the resistance of the forty plus. I managed to dissasemble it in a couple of hours compared with the several days for the other, younger, Gull. The outboard was seized, but it turned out that the problem was with the gearbox and not the motor. The drive shaft was seized to the pinion, as per the other forty, but this time it came loose with a little "persuasion". All good except that the gearbox looks like it has been run with no lubrication at some time. The propeller shaft is badly scored and there is play in both the pinion and shaft bearingings. The teeth on the pinion shaft are a bit "suss" but are all there. Mr Bodge had worked on the unit before me, with his handywork evident with the cardboard gasket and a broken bolt replacement. Don't know if the damage was before, or as a result, of Mr Bodges handiwork.

I found gearbox for the featherweight on the UK e-bay, supposably in good order, that looks to be a suitable replacement. Postage to Australia was as much again as the gear box, but I took the plunge and ordered it. Hopefully, I'll end up with a workable outboard and another Gull will be saved.

Raya
Posts: 73
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Location: Hope Island

Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by Raya » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:33 am

I decided that the stuck drive tube on forty plus wasn't going to beat me, so tried again to separate it. I finally got it apart. This is the method that worked for me.

1. Cleaned out the inside of the drive tube using a pice of thick wire and copious amounts of petrol.
2. Cleaned the outside of the shaft around the water pump impeller. Ran hot water over the impeller and moved it upwards using a couple of tyre levers.
3. Fitted the screw that locates the pinion bearing.
4. Placed the drive shaft in a vice with the gearbox near the floor (covered with a rubber mat).
5. Heated the area around the rusted joint with a gas flame until it was really hot.
6. Slid a length of steel rod down the drive tube until it rested on the top of the pinion drive.
7. Gave the top of the steel rod some serious blows with a hammer.

After removal, examination of the shaft showed that it wasn't badly rusted. The pinion bearing shows no play and all looks good. I'll clean up and paint the outside of the drive shaft with engine enamel and make sure that there is plenty of grease in the tube when I reassemble.

Hope that this techinque is usefull if someone strikes the same problem.

Raya
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:14 am
Location: Hope Island

Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by Raya » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:21 am

The forty plus is starting to take shape. It started on the second pull (nearly on the first) and ran smoothly. Unfortunately, there was no water coming out of the head. I thought that maybe I hadn't lined up the water delivery pipe but that checked out OK. The impeller is in reasonable condition, a bit scuffed, but still in one piece. I don't think that this is the problem.

When I cleaned up the motor, there didn't appear to be much rust in the places that I could see. Water squirted up the inlet came out the tell tail hole. I was reluctant to remove the head because of the trouble that had with every other fastener on the motor, but it looks like it has to come off. Hopefully, I won't break anything when I try.

Here is a picture of the work so far. It still needs a couple of bits and need to do some work on the carby as it drips around the banjo bolt. I doubt that the carb is original as it has a longer throttle cable than necessary which come have come from a century or 102 model. The motor runs OK with it though. It idles nicely.
Forty plus.jpg
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Raya
Posts: 73
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Location: Hope Island

Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by Raya » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:57 am

I took the head of the Seagull without damage. It is surprising how much a little heat helps with this. The cooling passages weren't too bad. There was some "mud" in the passages but no major blockages from rust. I scraped out the muck from the water passages and blew what was left out with compressed air. The barrel was in remarkably good condition, nearly as good as the featherweight.

When re-assembling, I noticed that the copper delivery tube was a little loose in the water pump housing. I put a couple of wraps of teflon tape around it to make a snug fit in case this was causing the water pump problem.

The outboard fired up fine, but there was still no water emerging from the head. I've ordered a new water pump rotor from Sheridan marine so will have to await it's arrival from the UK. If that doesn't fix the problem, I'll be asking you guys for help.
Before cleaning.jpg
After cleaning.jpg
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haventaclue
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Location: Donegal

Re: A Pair of Forties

Post by haventaclue » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:07 pm

The whole crew must be away celebrating St. Patricks Day :lol: Run the engine minus the prop,spinning prop sucks the water from it while in a tub.

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